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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are we lying to our daughters?

450 replies

Granville1 · 01/06/2025 07:58

I would like to start by saying that my husband is a really good guy. A lovely, kind person & a doting dad. Yet here I am, a burnt out millennial 40 year old mum of two girls (age 4 & 6) feeling utterly overwhelmed & exhausted by life. My head is barely ever above water

My mum is one of those superwomen. Always has seamlessly held the family together by doing everything. The full mental load is on her, but she never complains. In fact she seems to thrive on it. She always worked but perhaps not in the same “career” sense that our generation do, so perhaps didn’t quite have that additional pressure

I have now fallen into the same role as her. Although both my husband & I work full time so no reason I should take it all on. He does earn more but I also have a decent, fairly well paid & highly stressful job. Sadly we don’t earn enough for any additional help (aside from a cleaner). Yet I have become so accustomed to doing everything, I’m now stuck in a trap where my husband is -25 years of practice down & no amount of explaining or “training” 😂 would get him even close to taking on what I do

But I can’t help thinking that we are teaching our daughters that taking on everything is the norm. And even more cynically, that marriage & kids is great. It’s not. There might be a handful of exceptions but most of my friend’s (admitting it to varying levels) are miserable as sin. And most of it comes down to utter resentment of them having to balance full time careers & pick up the vast majority of the mental load (as well as physically carrying it all out too)

What do we do? Show bad role modelling by continuing to do almost everything & them thinking that’s normal? Also do we lie & say marriage & having kids is great? Or (if asked) do we generally encourage open conversations that alternatives do exist. I would never go on an aggressive tirade telling them that all women take on too much & will end up even more miserable if they get married & have kids, but at the same time, they are learning from me that masking the misery of working full time / having a career & taking on everything is normal

Has anyone else had similar thoughts? What do we do about it? How do we break the cycle? Would welcome comments about the future of our daughters not judgement on whether my husband does / doesn’t do enough

Thanks for reading

OP posts:
notacooldad · 02/06/2025 07:58

BANG - you get hit by a meteorite. Splat.
DH is going to have to learn quick
Many dont though. I work in children's services for family support.

There is a large number of cases where mum is not around for various reasons eg death, mental health issues, substance misuse and dads dont always learn. Children are put on a CIN and often escalated to CP for neglect.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 02/06/2025 08:00

GreyCarpet · 02/06/2025 07:53

This type of thread pops up quite frequently.

There was one a while back in which some posters admitted that, in the early days of their relationship, they'd taken on the majority of household responsibilities because they'd wanted to show their partner they'd make a good wife or to look after them, to make their partner's life easier.

Some women admitted 'when children came along, they had 'just assumed' their partners would 'just step up' and play an equal part. And were upset, frustrated and exhausted because they didn't.

It was interesting because I've only ever seen that on that one thread but I have often wondered if that were the case.

Similarly, with threads where women complain that it is their responsibility to buy presents for their partner's family. Some women say it was something that they had started doing during maternity leave because they were going to the shops anyway and they didn't mind but then it became something that stuck when they returned to work and once a second child had come along, it became harder to keep up and resentment set in.

Then there are threads where women complain that their partner wants to take the baby to his mum's for the day and half the posters replying will say he's unreasonable to expect her to want to spend any time at all away from the baby or where women won't allow their partner to do any childcare because he doesn't do things the way she wants them done or they won't go to a hen do because it feels frivolous to do something for themselves when they have a baby at home and their husband has never put the baby to bed before and doesn't know what to do. Some women who boast about giving up their hobbies when a child was born because their child is the most important thing in the world and they can't bear to be apart.

The same goes for housework.

It's labelled as 'weaponised incompetence'. Sometimes it is but sometimes it's just the status quo that has been established.

I've known a few women (mostly of my mum's generation - she's in her early 70s now) who would say to each other, "Honestly, he's useless! No idea how to use the washing machine!" and it was always said with a smile and a sense of 'Bless him! He'd be lost without me!" Or where they've declined invitations out to dinner on the basis that, "I can't. I need to do his dinner. He'd live off beans on toast if i werent there to cook for him!" So what? Beans on toast for a night won't kill him!

I've never really heen able to articulate why this is. But i have seen many, many women who are complicit in creating the situation irl.

And then the man is criticised for not being involved or taking on an equal share.

But it's everywhere. Threads where women are in the very early stages of dating and they're 'seeing each other' and having sex but it's not an exlcusive relationship because he doesnt know what he wants and a pervasive idea that men don't know their own minds; don't know what they want; don't know what's good for them. He does know what he wants. And he doesnt want a relationship with you but he also doesn't want to tell you that and cut off guarantreed sex.

There are threads where women talk about what they are looking for in a man and high earner and good looking often crop up. Or where they have complaints about his behaviour and attitude towards them but earns well and good looking crop up in the pro list. Yes, wanting someone solvent, with a good work ethic and probably.a similar earning potential to yourself is understandable and finding someone you find attractive is important but high earner and good looking will only take someomenso far inna relationship. They are not qualities that will make someone a good partner or father alone.

Women aren't responsible for men's choices or behaviours but we are responsible for deciding what we will accept in a relationship; for what we prioritise in a partner. Those men will still exist but we don't need to marry them or have children with them.

My advice to my daughter has been to start as you mean to go on. Set the precedent you want.

Don't accept something in the early days that doesn't work for you.

Yes, misogyny is rife and we live in a patriarchal society. We all know that. But, on an individual level, we still have choices. Choices around who we choose to share our life with, choice around who we create children with, choice on what we will accept.

I'm not an anomaly in having a partner who takes on a truly equal share of everything. Other women do too. I married one and, when dating between him and my partner, I didn't have a relationship with anyone who wasn't a fully functional, independent adult (and I've never had to give anyone a list!) And these were all men in their 50s I dated over the past 10 years.

There are plenty of willing and capable men out there but as long as women keep telling each other that most aren't and 'all men are like that', women will keep finding themselves with someone 'like that'

Edited

Very well said.

Griefandwithdrawing · 02/06/2025 08:03

I am the same age as you Op with two daughters. I identify with what you say and see it mirrored in my friend relationships. They all work FT or almost FT in careers which are demanding. Their partners do contribute, but no where near 50%. Its the mental load that I see is the real divider. The planning, the organisation, the constant juggle of responsibility. We are currently on a weekend away and it's our daughters birthday.

I planned, booked and packed fthe holiday, including planning meals, food, booking activities. I Bought the birthday presents, card, cake, balloon and arranged to meet up with her friends as a surprise. Reminded him to order a birthday present for his mum. Washed uniform and sorted to make sure they are ready for when we get back. Tidied the house so we don't return to a messy post half term cesspit.

This dynamic isn't present in couples i know without children. I don't blame Gen Z for looking at that and the cost of children and choosing another way

Screamingabdabz · 02/06/2025 08:06

Yep…this nails it from @GreyCarpet

“I didn't have a relationship with anyone who wasn't a fully functional, independent adult…”

Putting aside other vital relationship basics like kindness, communication and teamwork, in terms of domestic arrangements this is what we need to model for our children - and the expectation we teach our daughters.

TheyreLikeUsButRichAndThin · 02/06/2025 08:06

SeaShellsSanctuary1 · 01/06/2025 08:04

If Dh was a really good guy, a lovely kind person he would do a fairer share of the load off his own back

Agree with this. What would happen if you both work 4 days OP? Could you afford that? On the proviso that parenting and housework would be more equal and the kids would see that, not that DH goes off golfing for the day or whatever.

GRex · 02/06/2025 08:10

Jamclag · 02/06/2025 07:39

I don't disagree with anything you've said in terms of outcomes - I want exactly the same for women and have had those conversations with my own daughters.

But the emphasis always seems to be on women making poor choices in a life partner, women not being assertive enough in their relationship, not maintaining a career after kids or remaining financially independent and none of these things happen in a vacuum. The more privileged your social and economic position the more likely you are to be able to influence your environment, including the men in it, but they'll be a whole demographic of women and girls (maybe not typical mumsnet users) where making 'good' life choices will be much more difficult and on a predominantly female site it's important they don't feel blamed for what is at root a male socialisation/ entitlement problem.

important they don't feel blamed
This is one of the wettest, most unhelpful piece of whingeing I've seen yet. You are on a site that is predominantly women talking with other women, of course advice given will be proactive "you do X", because only the woman is here. If the man were posting, we would tell him to step up and do chores like an adult. Patronisingly petting women on the head "you poor dear, it isn't your fault" is teaching women they should just passively accept a bad choice in a man, and do nothing to actually improve life. Frankly, fuck off with that. Nothing in life was ever improved by moaning and inaction. If OP or any other woman feels "blamed" enough to send their particular lazy arse of a DH off the sofa into the kitchen, or picks the better job so her DH is forced to do more, then we have collectively moved equality forward just a smidge. And that's a hell of a lot more useful than moaning about patriarchy.

LimitedBrightSpots · 02/06/2025 08:11

The answer is to abolish traditional relationships and children. Men as a gender have proved themselves unwilling or unable to step up, so women will increasingly vote with their feet and eschew motherhood and traditional relationships, unless they see more in it for themselves. Women are already breaking free from traditional caring roles to a certain extent - you frequently see women posting on here for advice because they're being unwillingly cast as carers for older relatives, and the overwhelming consensus is "don't do it, walk away!"

If the government wants people to raise children, it will end up having to pay them much more to do it.

passmethebiscuit · 02/06/2025 08:11

i think that these 50 year old husbands all genuinely think they are doing loads as they are doing more than their fathers. Its still not enough.

AnotherNaCha · 02/06/2025 08:12

Just stop!! Stop doing everything so your “lovely” husband can see just what you do. what’s he doing when you’re doing the extra work? Probably ringfencing his “downtime”.

You are not lying to your daughters but TRAINING them to pick up the load.

If you’re also working out of the house you and your husband need to recalibrate out of the trad gender roles. My new partner was raised to do just as much as anyone in the home and it’s bloody amazing - yet should be the norm

TheyreLikeUsButRichAndThin · 02/06/2025 08:13

On a personal level I don’t think I’m lying to my daughter - DH does most of the childcare at the moment actually and earns far more than I ever will. I work in a creative role which involves some evenings so DH usually does bath and bedtime, does equal school and nursery drops and is alone with the kids every Saturday, and around with me on a Sunday.
I genuinely feel like my daughter is getting a wonderful example of what to look for in a partner and my sons are also getting a great example of how to be a man.

Speaking to my friends, only 1 is regularly and vocally fucked off with their DH too, we all seem pretty supported and balanced. Genuinely! They ALL only have boys though (I really don’t know anyone else with daughters!) but still, boys need to not be ‘lied to’ too.

GreyCarpet · 02/06/2025 08:29

passmethebiscuit · 02/06/2025 08:11

i think that these 50 year old husbands all genuinely think they are doing loads as they are doing more than their fathers. Its still not enough.

I've never asked my partner if he thinks he's doing more than his dad.

I'm saying he does 50%.

He gets up for work first, brings me a coffee in bed. He goes to work. He finishes work before me so goes home and starts dinner. After dinner, I clean up (although there isn't much to do as he cleans as he's going). He washes up. We both spend around 30 mins max doing housework and have a beer in the garden.

We sometimes make a list of things we need to do together on a Saturday morning. I've never left him a list of jobs to do. Because he can see them too.

It was no different with my ex husband. We both bought gifts for the birthday party we were taking one of the children to. But it was usually him.because he worked in the city centre and had a lunch break and I didn't. I didjt have to ask him to do it. He just knew it needed doing and did it.

We researched and booked holidays together. I've never had a to pack for a man. And he was more than capable of packing for the children, taking the children out for the day, and looking after our children on his own.

I'm not imagining and equal division of labour. It is and always has been real.

I don't know why some women are so resistant to this idea!

GreyCarpet · 02/06/2025 08:30

And sometimes, he makes the weekend jobs list on his own while I'm in the shower.

And he's responsible for his own laundry.

Because he's an adult.

Sofiewoo · 02/06/2025 08:36

Jamclag · 02/06/2025 07:39

I don't disagree with anything you've said in terms of outcomes - I want exactly the same for women and have had those conversations with my own daughters.

But the emphasis always seems to be on women making poor choices in a life partner, women not being assertive enough in their relationship, not maintaining a career after kids or remaining financially independent and none of these things happen in a vacuum. The more privileged your social and economic position the more likely you are to be able to influence your environment, including the men in it, but they'll be a whole demographic of women and girls (maybe not typical mumsnet users) where making 'good' life choices will be much more difficult and on a predominantly female site it's important they don't feel blamed for what is at root a male socialisation/ entitlement problem.

Nonsense, a woman can control her own life.

What good is blaming society, patriarchy or male socialisation for her own unsatisfactory life? What tangible difference will that make to her lifestyle?
It won’t, comments like this feed into OP’s martyr complex “oh he can’t change”. Rubbish!
If women want a better life for themselves they need to create it for themselves and it starts with accountability and what they will accept from a partner.

Jamclag · 02/06/2025 08:36

GRex · 02/06/2025 08:10

important they don't feel blamed
This is one of the wettest, most unhelpful piece of whingeing I've seen yet. You are on a site that is predominantly women talking with other women, of course advice given will be proactive "you do X", because only the woman is here. If the man were posting, we would tell him to step up and do chores like an adult. Patronisingly petting women on the head "you poor dear, it isn't your fault" is teaching women they should just passively accept a bad choice in a man, and do nothing to actually improve life. Frankly, fuck off with that. Nothing in life was ever improved by moaning and inaction. If OP or any other woman feels "blamed" enough to send their particular lazy arse of a DH off the sofa into the kitchen, or picks the better job so her DH is forced to do more, then we have collectively moved equality forward just a smidge. And that's a hell of a lot more useful than moaning about patriarchy.

Oh pack it in, no where have I said that women shouldn't be proactive in pushing for a more equal relationship with their partners but there is always a wider context to every male/ female partnership and making a stand can be so much more difficult for some women than others - surely you know this? My post was for any of the women who might be reading this that find themselves trapped in circumstances they absolutely did not foresee and already feel guilty as hell for their 'choices'. There's more than one way to show female solidarity.

Whyherewego · 02/06/2025 08:38

GRex · 02/06/2025 07:54

I don't understand how this passive aggressive dirty protest approach is easier than a quick sentence "You need to pick up more chores to balance how much I do, please do all household laundry in future."

If women feel they've failed by picking a lazy man, then that's a shame. It's still factual that they need to demand better from him, not wail ineffectually on forums while still doing everything at home.

Because sometimes people dont "see' the problem until they feel the problem.

I used to put all the kids stuff in the family calendar for my exH as I didnt want the kids to be impacted by him missing stuff. I asked him to also put things in the calendar. He said yes but didnt. So a few years ago I dropped the rope. He then had a spate of missing stuff or getting caught out on an inset day. He then worked out that he needed to maintain a calendar if he wanted to know when stuff was happening
The problem is that often mums don't want the kids to be impacted so we ask but we are the backup if it doesnt happen. You have to not be the backup is the point. And if the kids go to school in dirty clothes, so be it

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 02/06/2025 08:39

Jamclag · 02/06/2025 07:39

I don't disagree with anything you've said in terms of outcomes - I want exactly the same for women and have had those conversations with my own daughters.

But the emphasis always seems to be on women making poor choices in a life partner, women not being assertive enough in their relationship, not maintaining a career after kids or remaining financially independent and none of these things happen in a vacuum. The more privileged your social and economic position the more likely you are to be able to influence your environment, including the men in it, but they'll be a whole demographic of women and girls (maybe not typical mumsnet users) where making 'good' life choices will be much more difficult and on a predominantly female site it's important they don't feel blamed for what is at root a male socialisation/ entitlement problem.

Surely the answer to this is is not for us to resign ourselves to the patriarchy but rather to focus on working out how we can educate and empower all women to make good life choices. Starting with our own daughters, of course, but not necessarily stopping there.

arethereanyleftatall · 02/06/2025 08:39

Granville1 · 01/06/2025 07:58

I would like to start by saying that my husband is a really good guy. A lovely, kind person & a doting dad. Yet here I am, a burnt out millennial 40 year old mum of two girls (age 4 & 6) feeling utterly overwhelmed & exhausted by life. My head is barely ever above water

My mum is one of those superwomen. Always has seamlessly held the family together by doing everything. The full mental load is on her, but she never complains. In fact she seems to thrive on it. She always worked but perhaps not in the same “career” sense that our generation do, so perhaps didn’t quite have that additional pressure

I have now fallen into the same role as her. Although both my husband & I work full time so no reason I should take it all on. He does earn more but I also have a decent, fairly well paid & highly stressful job. Sadly we don’t earn enough for any additional help (aside from a cleaner). Yet I have become so accustomed to doing everything, I’m now stuck in a trap where my husband is -25 years of practice down & no amount of explaining or “training” 😂 would get him even close to taking on what I do

But I can’t help thinking that we are teaching our daughters that taking on everything is the norm. And even more cynically, that marriage & kids is great. It’s not. There might be a handful of exceptions but most of my friend’s (admitting it to varying levels) are miserable as sin. And most of it comes down to utter resentment of them having to balance full time careers & pick up the vast majority of the mental load (as well as physically carrying it all out too)

What do we do? Show bad role modelling by continuing to do almost everything & them thinking that’s normal? Also do we lie & say marriage & having kids is great? Or (if asked) do we generally encourage open conversations that alternatives do exist. I would never go on an aggressive tirade telling them that all women take on too much & will end up even more miserable if they get married & have kids, but at the same time, they are learning from me that masking the misery of working full time / having a career & taking on everything is normal

Has anyone else had similar thoughts? What do we do about it? How do we break the cycle? Would welcome comments about the future of our daughters not judgement on whether my husband does / doesn’t do enough

Thanks for reading

No.

‘We’ are not.

‘You’, your friends and any other woman who accept non-equal relationships are though.

The problem is your husband. How can you describe him as kind and lovely when he is the cause of the person he apparently loves be completely burnt out?!? By ‘kind and lovely’ do you mean doesn’t get angry, is laid back, fairly good company? Because that isn’t kind or lovely, it’s the bare minimum. I don’t see laid back as a good trait any more, to me it means lazy, selfish and thoughtless.

If you don’t want your dds to think this is normal, then the ball is in your court, and only yours, to do something about it.

I chose the leaving option, and I bloody love my single life now, absolutely love it; also my dds are thoroughly well versed in what equity means. They are already as teenagers setting very high standards for boyfriends and dumping those who don’t ship up, so no, ‘we’ aren’t lying to our girls.

IwasDueANameChange · 02/06/2025 08:45

I don't do this. I did, briefly, after maternity leave, and it resulted in a sit down with DH where I patiently explained that me doing everything at home AND bringing in 150k was going to kill me, and if he wanted us as a family to have me earning that sort of money in a "big" job, there needed to be a fair split of home jobs. He now does 45% of the school/childcare runs, takes eldest to swimming and rugby and over time is getting better and better at doing his share of things like buying gifts & cards for birthdays.

ByBlueMoose · 02/06/2025 08:46

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 02/06/2025 08:00

Very well said.

Yep. Coming from a long line of Irish women martyrs who complain about everything yet get the hump if the man gets the hoover out, I think a lot of women establish a status quo then moan like fuck about it.

My Step-Mum died last year and my Dad is 70. I had numerous female friends ask how he would cope and warned me that he'd expect me to step in and look after him.

He can cook, clean, iron and look after himself very well. He did it during their marriage despite Step-Mum trying to control everything.

AnotherNaCha · 02/06/2025 08:47

Will just add that this overwhelm and doing everything I believe is contributing to bad peri and menopause experiences. There’s studies coming out linking it and I’ve noticed my symptoms go through the roof when I’m juggling added stress

pitterypattery00 · 02/06/2025 08:49

CurlewKate · 01/06/2025 20:30

Out of interest, how many women on here have male partners who buy birthday presents for kids parties, arrange dental appointments and nit comb on at least half the occasions these things are needed?

My partner does all dental appointments and has done several doctor and vaccination appointments. We both work same hours - I can see that if one partner worked less more would fall on them to organise. I buy the presents for kids parties but he usually picks up the birthday cards during the weekly shop (as he does meal planning/shopping so I'm never in supermarket). We have both gone to children's parties - just depends who's free that day. No need for nit comb yet but I was the one who bought one in preparation! I would say I generally think further ahead than my partner and am better at keeping everything in my head - he has to keep a physical note of what's happening when or he forgets.

JHound · 02/06/2025 08:50

Who is “we”? I was never raised to believe taking on everything is the norm. Probably why I am usually single.

arethereanyleftatall · 02/06/2025 08:53

Would welcome comments about the future of our daughters not judgement on whether my husband does / doesn’t do enough

it’s impossible to comment on the future of our daughters without commenting that the entire problem is your husband.

your paragraph is a bit like saying ‘what is 2+2 but you can’t say 4’

Functioningdisaster · 02/06/2025 08:56

This post is really interesting. I rarely read everyone posts but on this case I have.

I resonate with the person talking about growing up in the 80's and the pressure of being the perfect housewife. I looked after my much younger siblings and was essentially mother's help. We also lived in a unstable situation with a domestically abusive father so the bar for men was low from the start..I remember saying to someone once in my early 20's that I liked my boyf at the time as he didn't beat me nor did he have affairs. I was also brought up to be financially independent so I would never have to depend on a man / nor would I be a burden to him financially. My background is British but Asian origin. I also think because of our upbringing I am a fixer as I don't like conflict so if it needs doing, I will do it.

Roll on 25 years later married and with two primary school children. I am the bread winner.

Husband cooks (but never the food shop) and does the chores he likes (garden) and does the bins..he does his own laundry (puts it in the machine and hangs to dry...never puts away)
To me these are all basics.

He gets the same emails and communication I get, but it's a unicorn day if he ever actions them

The mental load of raising two children and what comes lands with me. I recently did a post about what I did before going on holiday Vs what he did. The main response was I need to communicate better and maybe share a list and to stop being a martyr. I can't see how he can't see it. Why is it my job to do this. I can't respect someone who watches their partner take the lion share. We are back from holiday and I have washed the dirty clothes but the suit case is sitting in the hallway to go in the loft. Do I really need to say, can you put this in the loft? It's visually there...it doesn't live there! I will continue to walk past it and not say anything.

It has worn thin over time and has chipped away at our relationship. I am currently in a situation where I think 'what am I getting out of this marriage?' FWIW I have currently stepped back, my headspace can't take much more and I have had to lower my standards.

I wish I had the foresight back in my 20's, I have now and could tell myself something different.

For families around us, I would only say one is 50/50. The rest are women like me or he woman is working PT so they take more of the nurturing role. I don't know any father that buys a present, nit combed hair etc.

Really interesting thread op, thanks for starting it..hope you are doing ok x

AnotherNaCha · 02/06/2025 08:56

arethereanyleftatall · 02/06/2025 08:53

Would welcome comments about the future of our daughters not judgement on whether my husband does / doesn’t do enough

it’s impossible to comment on the future of our daughters without commenting that the entire problem is your husband.

your paragraph is a bit like saying ‘what is 2+2 but you can’t say 4’

Yes! And OP by doing that you’re in fact further ringfencing your partner from taking any responsibility