Are we lying to our daughters?

[Granville1]

I would like to start by saying that my husband is a really good guy. A lovely, kind person & a doting dad. Yet here I am, a burnt out millennial 40 year old mum of two girls (age 4 & 6) feeling utterly overwhelmed & exhausted by life. My head is barely ever above water

My mum is one of those superwomen. Always has seamlessly held the family together by doing everything. The full mental load is on her, but she never complains. In fact she seems to thrive on it. She always worked but perhaps not in the same “career” sense that our generation do, so perhaps didn’t quite have that additional pressure

I have now fallen into the same role as her. Although both my husband & I work full time so no reason I should take it all on. He does earn more but I also have a decent, fairly well paid & highly stressful job. Sadly we don’t earn enough for any additional help (aside from a cleaner). Yet I have become so accustomed to doing everything, I’m now stuck in a trap where my husband is -25 years of practice down & no amount of explaining or “training” 😂 would get him even close to taking on what I do

But I can’t help thinking that we are teaching our daughters that taking on everything is the norm. And even more cynically, that marriage & kids is great. It’s not. There might be a handful of exceptions but most of my friend’s (admitting it to varying levels) are miserable as sin. And most of it comes down to utter resentment of them having to balance full time careers & pick up the vast majority of the mental load (as well as physically carrying it all out too)

What do we do? Show bad role modelling by continuing to do almost everything & them thinking that’s normal? Also do we lie & say marriage & having kids is great? Or (if asked) do we generally encourage open conversations that alternatives do exist. I would never go on an aggressive tirade telling them that all women take on too much & will end up even more miserable if they get married & have kids, but at the same time, they are learning from me that masking the misery of working full time / having a career & taking on everything is normal

Has anyone else had similar thoughts? What do we do about it? How do we break the cycle? Would welcome comments about the future of our daughters not judgement on whether my husband does / doesn’t do enough

Thanks for reading

I think you need to find some self respect & stop making excuses for the bone idle man you're married to. It doesn't matter what you say to your children while they see you doing the exact opposite.

Earning less doesn't ever equate to doing more work, there is literally no reason why a higher paid person should be doing less work within a family just because they earn more money outside of the family walls

A couple of things I've thought of while reading this thread.

In my marriage, I was the default parent in as much as I made sure the lunch accounts were always topped up and I filled in forms for school. But my then husband had other jobs that were solely his responsibility. We did homework equally.

My partner and his ex wife both did shift work working opposite shifts so would tag team parenting - she did all the morning stuff - lunches, getting them to school and packing them up, he did dinner time, homework, baths and bed.

It's not about having an equal split of 50/50 straight down the middle for every job, it's about making sure there's a fair split overall across the week in terms of workload and free time. I've found it works best if each has an area of responsibility that either plays to their strengths or circumstance and is something the other never needs to remind about or check that its been done.

These threads always descend into cries of the patriarchy and misogyny and blaming women for men's behaviours.

I don't see it this way. I know and always knew that there are useless, lazy men. I know three couples where I'd describe the man in these terms.

But I knew that this was something I was specifically looking for in a man. I know some men change after children come but I think it would he rare for someone to be a decent, 50%+, fair man to completely morph into a useless, does nothing man.

MN should have a section for "housework/life admin balance between couples" it is such a common issue.

Stop doing everything, u had yr children late so havent got the energy they had years ago when they had their children early 20’s.

I think this is spot on.

One of the biggest shifts which society needs to make is valuing child rearing /unpaid caring, and seeing that true equality values those as much as money making.

Children learn from what’s modelled to them.

Nobody’s lying to your daughters. You are modelling to them that some men get away with only working FT, whereas some women work FT and take on all childcare and household responsibilities. You can stick your fingers in your ears and go LaLaLa as much as you want, but in your family your husband is not stepping up.

In our household, I’ve moved from FT WOH to SATM to PT then FT work. DH has stepped up how much he does at home as my working hours have increased, and his work travel requirements have decreased. Our children recognise that their dad and I have different knowledge/skill sets, but we have modelled a family life in which he is fully involved.

If Dh was a really good guy, a lovely kind person he would do a fairer share of the load off his own back
This is exactly right.
In 35 years of living with dh I have never had to tell him to clean the toilet, put bins out, change the bedding on Sundays and Wednesdays because he has a brain in his head and his eyes work. He knows what needs to be done and does it.
Sometimes I take ' the load' on when he's really busy( he's self employed) and he does what needs doing when I'm at work. Ive always done shifts with sleepovers.

When they were little Dh took the boys to Asda for the shopping, helped him do chores watched him make meals etc, in fact do everything that needs doing in a house, he sorted out birthday presents/ mothers day presents etc
As a result they are fully functioning adults in their mid 20s who have their own homes and run it well.

Dh learned how to do this from his parents ( who would have been 102 and 100 this year) my parents were the same, my dad ironed cooked shopped etc ( He's in his 80s)
Dh has always made sure that I had down time to do what I want, especially when the kids were at primary age. Do you get 'you' time?

I think it's not about teaching your dd about taking it all on but realising what you model to your children is what they become as adults. ( generally speaking of course )
Set your bar hire op for the sake of everyone.

I think you need to get your husband to step up. That is all.
You both work full time therefore WHY are you doing everything in the home too?
This is a you problem.
You saw your mum doing everything so now you do that too.
Don't let your daughters model the same behaviour.
Good luck.

This was my reaction. I don't relate to your situation OP as my partner is genuinely an equal parent. We share parenting and household chores/admin equally. We work the same hours as each other so any other split would be unfair. I wouldn't have agreed to have children with anyone who didn't agree to this set up - I don't enjoy housework and didn't want to sacrifice my career. We need to tell our children that a good education will open doors and choices for them as adults. For women, I believe an education and career offers more security than marriage..

Like you OP, my mum did the majority of household chores - but she worked 2-3 days, my dad full time. That worked for them and works for many people. It's all about women (and men) realising they have a choice.

You deserve to enjoy your life too . Please explain what you’ve told us to your husband and reset your expectations.
My husband shares the load of boring household chores without being asked because he knows I’m just as bored by them as he is and because he knows I would lie on the floor and scream if he didn’t ... 😂
I do change tyres & take out the rubbish etc if it needs doing too . I think it’s good for our kids to see that stuff as they’re growing up

I think the main crux of your situation is that you’ve allowed your DH to not be an active parent/check out of doing what should be a shared role.
Im a year older than you, my youngest is 5, oldest is 12 and although there are days where I could bawl my eyes out (perimenopausal) I’m happy at least 85% of the time and certainly not miserable.
I work less hours than my DH because he works 6 days a week however when he is home he’ll whiz around the hoover, put washing on, take the kids out, take kids to their clubs etc
If I disappeared the house wouldn’t go to ruin and the children would continue to get everything done for them that they needed.
I have friends that are miserable and that is because their situations are similar to yours, the partners are there in body and will interact with the children (as long as they aren’t squabbling, ill or need anything specific).
The full mental load of organising everything for their family falls on them, all the childcare, chores, food shopping etc as well as working and then they wonder why they feel awful. Resentment leads to bitterness and it’s impossible to feel joy about anything.
My advise to them is to just stop doing everything, have a serious conversation about what needs to change and make sure it happens. They say that nothing will get done if they don’t do it and I always reply how do they know, because they’ve never just said “I’m not doing this anymore”

I think we’ve all fallen into a abit of a trap that everyone can ‘have it all’. My Mum worked full time once we were all at school before that time we never went on holidays, only 1 car, meals had to be really planned, no takeaways etc because my parents couldn’t afford it on my Dads wages alone.
The pressures I feel come from
having young children and aging parents, which is something I know my friends are also starting to experience.
I think we should be showing our children that it’s important to pick a partner that is fully present rather than accepting situations that could be changed.

The lie is that women can have it all. This stems from the assumption that looking after a home and children is nothing - think about people asking SAHMs when they’re going to ‘go back to work’. It’s assumed to be easy work for vacant women, which is completely untrue, but it’s not valued at all. Even the 1970s (?) idea that women should ‘have it all’ stems from thinking that paid work is ‘real’ work (because anything done by men is valued and to be admired).

Marriage should be a partnership, and looking after the home and children is equally important than any paid job. Society has downvalued it. If a couple were able to have one of them working F/T and the other working at home (ie looking after home and children) and maybe doing some P/T work, that would be better: better for efficiency and better for MH and emotional health. But wait until people turn up to sneer at the idea that looking after a home and family is real work. Even women are amongst the sneerers, sadly.

So, be realistic with your daughters; tell them to think carefully about how they’d hope to manage work and having children; make sure you don’t indirectly denigrate P/T workers; and encourage them to get any partner to share domestic jobs from the beginning.

Could you yourself not work P/T? You’d be less stressed.

@BreatheAndFocus are you serious? Women can have it all if they have decent partner. You seem keen on disempowering women and getting them back in the home. As a lone parent on six figures I find your analysis laughable.

Oh so many questions! I haven’t read all the replies but you’re only 40, why on earth are you ‘allowing’ your DH to not do anything? Stop gatekeeping what he can do, and just stop doing stuff. There are apps that help you split out chores - I’ve never used them but any post on here about mental load will likely suggest them (someone may have suggested one already). Some of them started as books and it might be worth looking them up.

re lying to our daughters. I have a son. It’s how we raise all our kids. What was your husband’s dad like? Did his mum do everything?

please don’t keep modelling to your daughters that it’s ok for you to do everything. If you had a son I’d say that’s even more important.

Good luck

I never understand this situation.
If you leave your husband because he leaves everything to you, then you will have to do it all yourself.
Isn’t that what you were complaining about??

I agree.

@BreatheAndFocus Weird analysis.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic

Part of a marriage is loving and respecting each other. Do you really think a man who lets his wife burn out by doing everything loves or respects them? I certainly wouldn’t want to stay in a marriage with a man who thought of me as a second class citizen which is clearly what these men think.

@Granville1 sorry just seen you'd specifically said this at the end:

"Has anyone else had similar thoughts? What do we do about it? How do we break the cycle? Would welcome comments about the future of our daughters not judgement on whether my husband does / doesn’t do enough"

Well. It is about what your husband is not doing though isn't it? There seem to be enough examples of couples who have 'broken the cycle' on here, which is incredibly cheering. Some of it is societal - the lack of decent paternity leave
leave in the UK (assuming you're in the UK) sets hetereosexual couples with kids off on an imbalance from the off (look up gatekeeping / mums not letting dad do parenting their way / ever leaving them to look after the kids - I was fed up on a recent holiday with other women to hear most of them say they couldn't go away for a few days as their partners couldn't feed the kids. Honestly! Why do we have such low expectations?)

If you want to do something about the more equal parenting that feels hands on, look up the campaigns from Parenting Out Loud and Fatherhood Institute etc.

To me, though, it's often about the pressure you're putting on yourself, or what you think is expected. You said your mother seemed to do everything effortlessly so I wonder if you're feeling you're failing as you're not being like her? Have you asked her how she really found it when you were small? What was your dad like, did he do anything?

And I know you've got two girls, but think about the boys in all this. They are the ones who apparently become these useless husbands and fathers - what can parents model to those boys now to make that change?

Being on 6 figures helps i imagine

That men and women are basically the same, should take on the same roles, and this can be achieved by women successfully socialising their sons and husbands.
(It's funny how the work of achieving this feminist utopia always falls to women!)

And of course socialisation can effect social roles but the idea that it will eradicate sex based difference in roles so men and women's roles become indistinguishable is utopian nonsense.

And it's utopian nonsense which is leading women to stressed frazzled unsustainable lives which is their own fault for not training their husbands better.

I disagree.

I didn't have to 'socialise' my husband into being an equal partner. He just was. And he learnt that from both of his parents.

I haven't had to socialise my son in this respect, he just saw it and absorbed it from both his dad and me.

I haven't had to train my partner (now early 60s) to be an equal adult (and neither did his ex wife).

Of course men and women aren't the same. My exh wasn't able to take on an equal share of breastfeeding but he certainly didn't sit around doing nothing while I did. And he did pretty much everything whilst I was pregnant and immediately post birth for me and my son (his stepson) because I was really ill and physically incapable. And did so without complaint, fuss or issue.

I wouldn't have committed to/lived with either my exh or my current partner if I'd had any inclination that I'd be responsible for 'socialising' or training them!

But then these were qualities I prioritised when looking for a partner. I wasn't that fussed about 'good looking' or salary (which I often read about on here as being priorities for many women). Those weren't the things I prioritised in a long term partner.

I had no intention of looking after a man, picking up after a man, training a man, making excuses for a man, coddling a man... And I never have. That's not my role in life!

I really loathe this victim mentality of the poor meek woman being taken advantage of or so hard done by all the big bad men. It’s 2025. You have more rights and choice over your life than ever. You are a martyr that’s all. Why isn’t your husband stepping up? If you can afford a cleaner then you are also doing quite well. There’s nothing more you need to teach your daughter than you would a son. The example you set at home is what will be their normal. At home we both do what needs to be done.

I was ill recently and dh got up and sorted the kids out. He didn’t need to ask me what food to make or where anything is. I’m a sahm and he is out full days. But he was able to find everything and get on with it. Why? Because he has a brain and uses it. How does someone who can hold down a big job, maintain responsibility at work yet become useless at home? It’s because of enablers at home.
you get what you choose and settle for. A useless man, that’s who you chose so why are you complaining if you do nothing about it.

My DH isn't like this. Your mother normalised this so you think your husbands behaviour is acceptable. If you don't want your DCs to grow up disrespected or lazy, stop normalising this dynamic. If your husband can hold down a job, he can function like most adults. And if you genuinely think he cannot and would neglect your DC should anything happen to you, you need sort it now.

Because if you leave all have you to do is what needs done. You leave behind all the emotional pain, and frustration and resentment and emotional exhaustion that comes from constantly trying to get someone to pull their weight, and them never doing so.

It’s really freeing to leave and just get on with stuff without all that shit. You get more done because you are less exhausted by not battling the deadbeat H anymore and because you just do stuff. Instead of not doing stuff as he should be doing it but then doesn’t.