To think asking people if they have grandchildren is like asking if they are pregnant - just don't!

[Liesmorelies]

I was talking to a colleague last week and she suddenly asked if I had grandchildren. I think she already knew I had children but not their ages - I don't know her well and we weren't discussing our children at the time.

It really took me aback and, I admit, offended me a bit. I'm 49 and have been told a few times I look younger. Not because I'm so attractive (I'm not!) but my skin is pretty good and no grey hair and, while I'm quite insecure about my looks, looking older than I am is not among them. Or wasn't. It is now.

I know you can have gc at 49 but it's quite unusual and no one where I work who is the same age as me has gc- all have dc around the same age as mine (late teens).

If someone was clearly in their 40s/50s but I wasn't sure of their age I just wouldn't ask it unless I knew for a fact they had adult dc, just like I wouldn't ask if someone was pregnant just because their figure suggested they might be!

It also makes me worry that she was being a bit snide, which is also an upsetting thought.

Yes, some people HAVE been 'nasty quickly' for no reason. The attacks on young mums have been dreadful.

As @MiracleCures said

The whole first chunk of this thread was people saying that younger (under 30s) mums were reckless/socially deviant/unambitious/small minded/uneducated.

A whole raft of posts came in calling women who had their first child in their 20s, uneducated, from rough areas, and lower class, amongst many other things. Basically saying if they have a baby - some even said under 35 - that they will have no career, no life, no opportunities, and they will never get to travel etc etc etc....

THOSE insults were thrown first - at younger first-time mums. I have not seen any insults towards older first-time mums. Maybe I missed the 'nasty' comments towards older mums. I haven't seen any. I have seen a LOT of barbed and nasty comments towards younger mums though!

But why do you think she is saying the OP looks old? Presumably she looks 49, an age when it is perfectly reasonable for someone to have grandkids.

Are we now supposed to find it offensive when someone correctly guesses our age?

I was 40 having my youngest child. I did tell them I was old enough to be their grandmother 😂.

To be honest, @LikeWhoUsesTypewritersAnyway I think some of your comments about how I don't look 33 or whatever it was were on the nasty side. I said in the OP I have some insecurities about my looks and don't consider myself attractive. I didn't make any disparaging remarks about younger mums or imply I think I look way younger than I am, so it was a bit unnecessary. Obviously tame as far as AIBU can go, but while we're on the topic of nastiness...

Of course it can make you feel a bit odd to suddenly realise that you are entering/have entered a new stage of life all of a sudden with a comment like that. I think most of us will have moments like that. I remember a lady I knew who told me how she'd gone looking to but a pair of jeans, and instead of the finding a good pair in the section with hip clothes for young people, she'd ended up getting a pair from the middle aged lady section because they fir and felt and looked better. It was a moment of reappraisal of her position in life.

But you wouldn't say that the arrangement of clothing brands was offensive. Her age was an objective fact, and her figure which reflected that.

The fact that you suddenly realised you are entirely old enough to be a grandmother is just something that happens at a certain point, and it's generally a healthy thing. The person who said something that made you realise it isn't being offensive. Her comment just happened to be the thing that made you notice.

As it always is on here

They were definitely thrown first. I did make a comment about older grandparents are more likely to be dead or some words to that effect.
Life expectancy for a male is 78 yr old and female is 82. And I stand by it. Most of my friends who are my age grandparents are dead and died when they were in their late teens/early 20s. Of course you can live until you’re over 100. But they are the stats.

@LikeWhoUsesTypewritersAnyway I do find it a bit nasty that so many people are adamant they would expect me to be the grandmother of my primary school aged child at school pick up because I’m a going to be an older mother. I also find it offensive that people said things like ‘sadly older mothers don’t have choice’ and alluding to the fact that young mum is best as that isn’t my personal opinion as I would have done a terrible job of raising children in my 20s. I would’ve been short tempered and irate constantly and I would have screwed then up. I don’t think that younger mums are working class and uneducated. I also don’t think just because that is how I would be raising kids in my 20s that all mums in their 20s are like that.

What I said in the post you quoted, was that it was fair that it turned nasty quickly if people were being unfair on young mums. But I also don’t see the need to be nasty. I did find some things a bit offensive but I just stated that I wouldn’t look at things that way in a very level way or that I consider that unfair. Or provided some evidence to show a different view point to show that people have different experiences and perceptions.

I do think often people can have a nerve hit and start typing in anger and retaliation without giving things thought. It’s enough to just lay out why something might be offensive with out being sarky about it. That just gets people’s back arched and turns into an argument and nothing constructive can come of that. As OP said, forums like this are good to widen your viewpoint or see another perspective and it’s pretty hard to do that when it’s all just angry comments. Hence why I skipped through it until we got back to the original topic.

It's almost like they don't have a degree.

Nasty for saying you don’t look 16 years younger than your age? 😂 If someone said I didnt look 19, I would agree with them and laugh at the craziness of it. It’s pretty ridiculous to think a nearly 50 year old could possible look 33. Many people in their 30s look way younger these days.

I thought that reading the title, but I kinda get it. Not in the way that you shouldn't ask about pregnancy because people may be child free (by choice or not). But in the way that "are you pregnant" can equate to "you're rather fat aren't you", asking about grandchildren is making an assumption as far as age goes.

Neither I think are usually intentional, but tactless.

Nope. You're wrong. I said earlier, as a generalisation, NOT aimed you personally...

Taken from my post at 17.59

The reason people are offended, is because even though they are old enough to be a grandmother (and are the average age of a grandmother - according to Government statistics, around 49-50,) in their head they think they look like they're in their early 30s.

Everyone else is seeing someone who looks their age though. (As everyone does - within 3-4 years.) So even though someone of around say 49-51 thinks they look 33, everyone else is seeing someone who is around 50. No-one thinks you look 33.

I said someone who is 49-50 is not going to look 33, they will look their age, so that is why people can easily think you could have grandchildren. I merely said that some people were under the impression that they look 15 years younger than they are. (You see it a LOT on Mumsnet.) So they are automatically offended if someone thinks they look older (than they think they do!)

I did not aim anything at you. It was a generalisation based on what you were saying. I was not 'nasty.' I stated facts. That everyone pretty much looks their age, and that some people think they look much younger than they do. And that's why they are offended when someone says something that implies they think they're older than they think they look (or GASP! thinks they are their actual age.)

Upshot is, it's NOT that weird or offensive for someone to assume someone who is 49-50 could be a grandmother. 74% of almost 900 people think YABU, and many comments on here suggest it too. Maybe you should just accept YABU.

And @Iggilypiggily you may think people are being 'nasty' to assume a woman of 50 picking up a 5-7 y.o. is the grandmother, but most people will. That's just the way it is. Despite lots of posters on Mumsnet saying they and everyone they know had their first child at 42, and had another 1 or 2 in their 40s, most women will have their first by 30, and the last one before they are 37-38.

I'm all talked out on this thread now, and am just repeating myself at this point. So I'm out.

But why is it nasty to view you as a grandmother? Surely that would be their perception of you based on how you look not your age? Not all older mothers are going to look old, and not all younger mothers will look young.

I have seen this as well. I think it's a combination of the employment prospects not really covering the cost of university that well, compared to other types of work, and also the fact that university education has really lowered it's standards to a significant degree, so it's not even honing the soft skills it used to. When you can come out of a degree from a supposedly good university and barely write a research paper, that doesn't seem very worthwhile.

My kids see people a little older than they are coming out of trades and buying homes in their 20s, and being able to do things, and that's seems a lot more appealing than spending 4 or probably more years in a mediocre school, not earning, and coming out at 25 and still looking for work that may be difficult to find or needing additional qualifications. That five years spent investing income or buying a house is a huge advantage 30 years down the road.

You’re talking perfect sense. Also primary school teachers can be as young as 21 years old. My husband was that age when became a teacher. When I was 21 I thought 30 was OLD never mind a 49 year old. So yes, younger teachers will probably think someone in their late 40s is the grandparent.

The same logic applies @Catinthereallysmallhat, many people in their 50s also look way younger these days too. My hairdresser is nearly the same age as OP and I thought he was in his late 20s or early 30s the whole time I have known him. I have always thought I was older than him. My sister is in her 40s and still can’t get into a bar or buy alcohol or cigarettes without ID. People do not believe her when she says her age and she has been accused of using a fake ID regularly. And she has been a smoker since she was 15! So it’s really not so crazy as you think.

This is the point that I am out. If your response to someone saying they felt offended is to show a crying laugh emoji just shows that half the people on here are not really capable of having a conversation and are just focused on being right or showing others up as being wildly wrong instead of just admitting that there are other perspectives out there and that it is possible to feel something that you perhaps wouldn’t. The conversation isn’t at all constructive at this point.

@OP I would feel offended and I probably would’ve said so at the time, or gently indicated that it might be a rude thing to ask. It’s like people asking me if I have kids and if not then why - when you don’t know anyone that has fertility issues then you perhaps don’t think to be gentle when engaging in that conversation. I think that perhaps sets me apart from the ‘average’ person based on this thread, as I am a hypersensitive person and so will always be sensitive to others needs in a conversation and if I have unknowingly offended someone I would explain if they have misunderstood me or own up and apologise if it was a lack of awareness on my part and try to do better next time. Everyone is fighting a battle we don’t know about and all that. It’s nice to be kind and considerate and to handle things with grace instead of biting or snapping. But I think the ‘average’ person based on all the averages chat on here seems to just say things with no consideration to how they might land and then scoff if it has hurt the other person and tell them they are the wrong ones for having feelings. I do also genuinely think some people just get a kick out of being quite verbally aggressive on these chats or purposefully take very strong standpoints and disagree with people to pass their time. And if that’s your hobby, then so be it! Rather you than me.

@LikeWhoUsesTypewritersAnyway you’re being very rigid here. I am saying it’s nasty that people say that is exactly what my experience would be. And that it is correct. But equally I’ve never once been guessed to have my current age and anyone I know who has children in primary school is in their 40s. So I know it won’t be. I’ve also worked in primary schools for years like I’ve already said and I know most of the parents are older than me by quite a bit. To be honest it just suggest that perhaps you are quite young yourself.

The younger parents in my experience and where I live and where I am from are the anomaly. It’s very expensive to survive and they simply can’t afford to have kids until later in life. So it’s not just the case that that is exactly what my experience is going to be. It isn’t. I would never assume anyone was a grandparent at school pick up. And even when I was working in schools in my early 20s, I would always have asked parent? Upon collection of the kids and allow the grandparent to correct me because that’s the polite thing to do. And sure you give them a nice little confidence boost. But I’ve never ever wrongly thought someone was a grandparent when they were a parent. Not once in my 37 years of existing. I can even remember a boy in my primary school having older parents and us all just recognising then as parents even when we were of primary school age ourselves. But perhaps that’s just having lived in different places and experienced all sorts - I am very well aware the whole worlds experience isn’t exactly like mine.

in their head they think they look like they're in their early 30s.

How can you be so sure about what someone thinks in their head?

About you seeing a woman in 40s with a 4 year old and thinking she is a grandmother and justifying this with some GOV published average age, the other people can have their own conscious bias and can justify based on some other statistics.

Most women you know around 49 are grandmothers, and for some people most younger mothers they see are less ambitious, and that’s how they form their opinion.
We all make assumptions and conclusions based on what we notice in our mini world.
If you are not willing to be polite and willing to hear other person’s perspective, don’t call them rude when they give their opinion with the same confidence and bias you do without regard for feelings for other side. A lot of posters are being nasty on both sides. The context op gave shows that colleague was just being thoughtless, nothing more when she didn’t even ask anything about OP’s children. Who jump to grandkids without asking about kids unless there is some relevance. A lot of posters responded to op rudely telling her to get over herself, etc.

There’s been many, many articles wrote about how millennials look younger than gen z’s. Haven’t read any articles how 50s look younger than 40 year olds. That’s not to say some don’t. The 50+ year olds that are famous and I would say have probably had some tweekments look their age. Ie The Realhousewives of Beverly Hills, the ones that are in their 50s look in their 50s, still look good though. I would even argue the ones on their 60s look younger. Jennifer Anniston is 56 looks lovely but I’d say she doesn’t look in her 40s. It isn’t nasty that’s my opinion.

I’d say people have free will and can do what they want, and if that includes putting a laughing emoji on a comment because they feel op is being sensitive then that’s their opinion. The conversation will be either yes they agree or no they don’t. Neither is right. These are two different perspectives so I don’t know what else you really expect?

No the first chunk of replies were telling op to get over herself.

This was a thread from October of last year “How old is too old to have a baby” many women sharing their reasons of what age they think is too old and also give their age…

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5209497-how-old-is-too-old-to-have-a-baby

I mean - the whole point that many people have been trying to get across is that they are likely not thinking you are older. They just have a different sense of how old people are when they become grandmothers. And as many have pointed out, a statistically reasonable one.

That's why people have been pointing out that the OPs sense of when people become grandmothers is biased by her experience, to reassure her that her colleague wasn't implying she was ancient.

Since she says she accepts that, but still thinks it's offensive, it's hard to understand why unless it is something like the class issues, (which were brought up by posters directly saying that women having grand kids in their 40s were unambitous and probably didn't have degrees, so not some kind of imaginary belief.)

I don’t quite understand this @Catinthereallysmallhat - I know I do look younger than my age and I know some young people look older but I don’t quite see what you mean here. But that’s not what I’m saying is nasty. I don’t think it’s nasty that people might think that I’m a grandparent at school pick up.

What I think is nasty is that people are insistent that is the experience I will have just because I’m older than being in my 20s when I have my first child.

I don’t know a single person this has happened to and doing the job I do I think I can safely say I’ve met more parents than those who are insistent this will be the case have. And I’ve never once gotten it wrong. I’ve worked across so many early years centres and schools and met 1000s of parents of young children, not one has been mistaken for grandparents and they were certainly not all in their 20s or early 30s.

Well this thread got weird! I’d have been offended by that question too OP and I’m older than you.

I am wrong about not having a 49 old grandmother in my circle?
I can’t help that my family gave education a lot of importance and that my friends and social contacts came from my university and professional life, and that most choose to have kids in early 30s and their kids are not ready to have kids in their teens.

If you find that wrong, so be it.

BTW it is also possible to be a great grandmother by age 49, and reading this thread I am sure it is very common in the UK for women to be a great grandmother by age 60, but I would still not ask. I am also not surprised that there is a shortage of skilled staff in the UK and there is a need to full that gap by immigration.