Loud Child in Church

[Difficile]

We go to a child friendly Church, with lots of families including Ben and his four children. Three of the four go into kid's groups, but the youngest (2), refuses to leave her Dad and wants to stay in the service.

Fine.

Except, Ben then doesn't parent his daughter, Abby, he leaves her to (usually female) friends in the congregation to cope with. Last time he left Abby with her godmother, Jane, who is lovely, but has 3 small children of her own, including twins (3) and a small baby, and her husband took all their kids to the Sunday School, including the baby, to give her a break for an hour.

Abby is very boisterous, loud, and she wants to be played with throughout the service. Jane tried her best to keep Abby quiet, but Ben doesn't bring anything with him to entertain her or feed her (I have also looked after her one week), and try as she might to tell Abby to be quiet it made absolutely no difference.

Jane was clearly embarrassed and flustered, but Ben seemed to be studiously ignoring the fact that Abby was disrupting half the Church. Jane is very quiet and won't say anything about this herself, but she mentioned to me that she felt guilty and upset after last week as she knew how loud Abby had been.

WIBU to say something to Ben this week about essentially using friends as free childcare, and ask that he takes Abby out when she's making too much noise?

Why do you think you would be unreasonable?

Are you the Vicar?

Why did Jane take over minding this child?

Jane can say she would like some time without children to focus on the service and send the child back to its father on repeat.

Of its a child friendly inclusive church then there are going to be some loud kids I don't think they should be removed,
But Jane,should be telling Ben that's she's not prepared to look after Abby anymore and he needs to look after his own child.

If it's a child friendly service it seems that anything goes. I wouldn't go to this service if I wasn't happy with the set up. Jane should go to a different service for a while if she isn't prepared to say anything. D

I don’t think you should say about her loudness but dad needs to step up here. Anytime Abby plays up firmly say go to dad now, Abby. If he doesn’t respond tap him and ask he takes over.

To answer, no not the vicar, I only don't want to say anything because I don't want to be interfering.

I don't know exactly why Jane took over, I think because otherwise Abby is completely left to her own devices.

It is child friendly, but they also are encouraging parents to take their children out so they don't disturb people with sensory needs or disabilities.

Could someone from Sunday school try and encourage dad to bring Abby out with all the other children and for dad to stay at Sunday school for a few weeks to settle Abby.

Why should Jane have to move because of one child? A child friendly service is generally a tolerant one, but there is a difference between what you’d expect: low level chatter, dropping things and the odd whine and then there’s loud disruptive behaviour which really isn’t on.

That's been tried and she just gets really upset and doesn't settle at all. Ben missed about 6 weeks in a row trying to do that and she wouldn't let him leave the room, Abby has friends in her group but she just doesn't want to separate from Ben.

Why does this man expect women to take over looking after his DD?
And why do they do it?

I don't think you can say anything if it is a child friendly service. However, it can be difficult to concentrate if a child is too loud. I'd probably take along rice cakes, bread sticks and sultanas and ask Dad if you can feed them to her during the bits of the service when you want to concentrate.

Church services are about people in all shapes and sizes. Either it is a welcoming church or it isn't. If this is described as a child-friendly service then people have to suck it up! Some children will not want to be farmed ou0t during it, some children will be more boisterous than others.

It could be that church is simply an inappropriate place for this child to be and she should be out in the park having some fun.

Dad (or mum if she's on the scene) needs to go to Sunday School with Abby until she gets used to it.
You and Jane need to tactfully tell him this - at the least Jane needs to return Abby to him when she comes over (though why is she coming to others if she wants to be with dad so much?).

No Mum on scene which I'd why Abby is so attached to Ben.

I think Ben is tired from parenting and sees it as a break when others look after her.

So Ben has 4 kids, youngest is 2, clingy and loud, and is a single parent.

Chat to Jane/the vicar about how to support him. The church could easily provide a couple of toy bags with age appropriate activities in. You could look in charity shops to help build up the stock of toys. And someone could give Ben/Jane some biscuits to keep little one settled.

Remind the vicar how lucky s/he is to have families attending church - ours has worked really hard to get them back in - and see how you can all support them.

We have a couple of very boisterous young children in the congregation and a few disabled/ SEN children and adults who sometimes make noise or have moments of disruption. It's part of the reason I love going to the church and no one minds.

However, I know what you mean in that while everyone is fine with little outbursts and secretly likes it when a toddler shouts something random in the middle of a sermon, we still do expect the carers to manage the situation to minimise disruption where possible. If people don't settle then maybe nip out into one of the other rooms.

The issue isnt with the toddler but with the parent not managing it and pushing it on others. Who then can't enjoy the sermon. It did stand out to me that Ben had missed 6 weeks because he was trying to settle her, that doesn't sound like someone who is totally avoiding responsibility. If this is someone who is trying then maybe there is more that can be done to support?

If Abby is so attached to Ben and only wants to be with him, how come she’s happy to be left with all these other people/women?

It’s hard for me to from an opinion on whether or not Dad is being unreasonable based on not taking child out. Simply because levels of noise are subjective and you haven’t really said if it is constant and what type of noises etc.

I do think it’s a hard thing to balance in churches when it comes to making it child friendly whilst also attempting some peace and quiet. I am a Church goer and have a just turned 3 year old, most weeks he goes to the kids club but there is one week a month where kids clubs don’t run and all children are welcomed in the church. In those weeks, I don’t really care how noisy he is, I mean if he was screaming then yeah I’d take him out but normal play sounds I think is fine.

Personally I wouldn’t say anything. It’s up to her parents to encourage her more to go the club or wait until she’s ready. She’s only 2 at the end of the day, I’m sure in a couple years she will be different.

Or just people who wish ti have a bit of peace to pray and reflect. I go ti church just for that! I don’t expect total silence of course, but to hear someone hollering and making a racket is just plain disrespectful.
We have children in church and Sunday School is only once a month. They are kept under control or taken out. They know what’s expected of them a d how to behave. They are a joy to have with us.

They all sit together, so she's still with Ben, as she's next to him, but he leaves other people to attempt to entertain her whilst he listens to the sermon. So he doesn't 'leave' her, but he just doesn't pay attention to her.

If that's the case he needs to take responsibility for his child during the service. The women like Jane need to stop doing his parenting for him.

The kind thing to do would be to find a way that Ben feels supported because he’s clearly doing a difficult job, but so that no one else feels continually put upon.

I wouldn’t normally think it was nice for a two year old with no mum be made to leave church, but if there’s sensory needs for someone else to consider then maybe some people could take it in turns to entertain the child. If Ben knows there’s a rota or something he’s more likely to remove his daughter when she is truly disruptive if she won’t go outside with anyone else.

Exactly. He's idle and they're enabling it.