To think my friend should set her standards higher?

[Nobivucy]

She is mid 30s and child free. She has been sleeping with the same man on and off for around 15 years. He has never wanted a relationship.

She has had a couple of short lived relationships in that time, and he’s had a few dates and one night stands. About four years ago she met a (I thought) nice man who wanted a proper relationship, and told the other man she wasn’t going to be seeing him any more. After about three months she ended it with the boyfriend, got back in touch immediately with the other man, and resumed things with him.

They now see each other every couple of weeks. Always at his house. Always to play darts or pool and have a drink. They text numerous times a day. He doesn’t want a relationship, but she says she’s made it clear that if he slept with another woman, or was speaking to one with that intention, she’d be done and he’d be blocked. Neither of them have slept with anyone else for years. They’ve booked a weekend away and she’s really excited, as if he’s proposed.

AIBU to think she’s wasting her best years with him, he’ll never commit, and she’s wasting the chance to find someone to settle down properly with? I have told her this but she laughs and says he ‘makes her laugh and is good in bed’. I just think it’s a bit pathetic and am worried she’ll end up 50 and alone when he meets someone he’s actually serious about.

If it does, will it have helped that you told her so?

I feel like OP has made it clear over and over again in this thread that her friend has indicated to her she does want more with this man, and would want marriage with him if that was on the table. OP’s friend even went to the lengths of breaking up with him for a while to be with someone who could offer her a committed relationship, which she wouldn’t be doing unless she felt like a committed relationship was something she did want. So I don’t feel like PP are being fair to say OP is imposing those expectations on her friend. OP is responding to the fact that her friend is giving her repeated signals that she’s not actually very satisfied with this situation.

She didn’t go into the committed relationship to be with that man though, it was in the hope that the man she loves would fight for her.

I don't think it's any of your business if it does or not.

And so your current judgement on how pathetic, low-standards and just generally sad you think it is, that she isn't desperate for a male commitment to fulfil her life so she won't end up 50 and alone because men won't want her anymore, is just your misogynistic judgement and ideas of superiority.

I'm sure you'll love it if she ends up alone at 50, even if she's happy being so.

Well exactly, what she really wants is more commitment from the man she’s seeing currently. I’m not exactly sure why the OP is being pilloried for feeling concerned about that. It feels as if a lot of people are reacting very defensively as if their own situations are being attacked, but this is about OP’s friend, not them. If OP’s friend was happy with no commitment that would be fine, but the signs are clearly there that she’s not.

I can’t really believe that on MN of all places, people are acting as if it’s fine that he got her pregnant then left her to deal with an abortion on her own until she absolutely insisted that he come to the last appointment. On any other thread it would be an instant ‘LTB’.

Nothing anyone says will change her friend’s mind, unfortunately.

Because the OPs friend hasn't said anything of the sort.

All of OPs posts are saying 'I think' in regards to her friends relationship. OP says 'I think she wants this, I think she wants that' based on what OP thinks any woman she want.

There's not one comment where the friend says she wants more commitment.

It's all OPs opinions.

I think you need to re-read OP’s posts. I also think it’s strange so many people are assuming they do know what this woman wants based on no conversations with her at all, since they haven’t ever met her whereas OP has.

Maybe the friend would like to get married to him if it was her choice. But maybe it’s also not a dealbreaker for her.

If the friend was coming to OP crying about it every other week then that would be one thing but that isn’t even happening. The friend seems ok with not seeing him in the week because she is also busy doing stuff. It doesn’t sound like she’s sitting around just waiting for him all the time. And of course she is excited to go on holiday with him, why wouldn’t she?

She also doesn’t want children so there really is no time pressure - unless you think once a woman turns 50 she’s no longer dateable, which of course is untrue and highly misogynistic.

He doesn’t sound too committed and it’s not what I would choose but this friend is choosing that. And nobody can make that choice for her. Even if she ends up broken hearted, it doesn’t mean she will have regrets in trying.

If she asks what you think then by all means be honest with her but if she isn’t asking for advice or coming to you complaining then I’d stop worrying about it and stop bringing it up.

No, i think you should read OPs posts.

They're all 'I think' statements.

Come back when you've found a post that isn't about what OP thinks about her friends relationship but where the friend has actually said she is wasting her beautiful years waiting for this man.

She hasn't. It's all OPs ideas and projections.

Thank you! This is it exactly.

She does want more commitment. She ended things with him and got together with someone else because he was willing to offer her the commitment currently man isn’t. Yes, she went back to him, but that’s because she wanted and missed him, not because she doesn’t want commitment. She does.

It went on longer than just the final abortion appointment too. She had a really, really hard time dealing with it all. She got terrible anxiety and had a bit of a breakdown and ended up getting counselling to get better. During it all, the man would refuse to speak about it even though she was desperate to talk about it and get support.

Several months later when she was still quite ill she asked what he was doing that weekend and what was he doing? Going on a date with another woman. She completely stopped speaking to him for a year or so after that, despite him sending her messages every now and then, and then caved and agreed to meet him. He was a bit of a dick and she called it off again and it was only a breakup with someone she really liked and a lot of wine just before Covid that led her to text him again (and yes, this was an occasion when I advised her not to).

Then he couldn’t have cared less when she left again for the nice man and now we’re here. Maybe I’ve expressed myself badly. I think his behaviour has been awful and despite what she says that he knows she’s permanently done if he goes with anyone else, there’s nothing really stopping him.

If OP’s friend is totally happy with the situation she’s in, then why did she break up with this man for a while to be with a man who was offering a committed relationship? Why is she keeping track of how the relationship ‘progresses’ towards commitment? Why is she describing him as her boyfriend to strangers when he isn’t describing her as his girlfriend?

There is no 'should' about it. You seem to have a very fixed idea of what people should do.

But she is in fact an adult woman who can make her own choices.

Yes he sounds like he treats her with indifference, but he is who she chooses, every time. One day, she won't. But you judging her choices or telling her he's awful while she's still into him won't help her get there.

You know that if you badmouth anyone someone loves, they immediately jump to their defense. For most it also makes them want to find the good more than ever and they'll double down.

All you can do is be there for her if and when it all falls apart. No point worrying about it or telling her to do different til then.

unless you think once a woman turns 50 she’s no longer dateable, which of course is untrue and highly misogynistic.

It’s misogynistic, yeah, but as I’m sure you’ve noticed, many men are. It’s also not only misogynistic - unfortunately it’s just a reality that at 50 OP’s friend’s situationship will likely still be fertile and may be able to have children with a younger woman if he decides he wants to, whereas if OP’s friend changes her mind at that point, it will be too late. Yes it’s shit and frustrating for us as women, but I can’t see the point of denying that reality.

I mean, many women decide they don't want children, and regardless of their relationship status, there comes a point where it's too late to change their mind. That's just a fact of life, and something most women who decide they don't want children have already factored in.

Sure, we need to be realistic about the volume of misogynistic men out there. That’s a problem for everyone though and not reserved for women over the age of 50. If a man isn’t going to date someone because they are over the age of 50 then that man isn’t worth dating anyway. It’s not really a loss to the woman! People can find themselves single in their 50-60s for all sorts of reasons, including non-misogynistic men. Dating pool is shit for women of all ages. Not just older women.

As for this woman’s fertility, she says she doesn’t want children, why don’t you believe her? She aborted his child, that’s not the actions of someone who secretly wants children with him. Are you like this with all women of child bearing age who say they don’t want children?

She definitely doesn’t want children.

The abortion was very hard on her though. She was wavering about whether to do it in the end and was regretful for a long time.

One of my worries is how it would affect her to see him settling down and having kids with another woman when she had such a hard time getting over her abortion.

I haven’t said anywhere that I don’t believe her. I don’t know her. I know we’re talking about things that are very sensitive for a lot of us as women, but the amount of prickliness, defensiveness and projection on this thread are pretty wearying, honestly. I do know from my own experience that it’s possible to feel in your 30s that you’re not that fussed about children, then discover as 40 approaches that you feel differently. Equally of course some women will feel in their 30s that they don’t want children and continue to feel that way. If that’s OP’s friend’s situation then great. If she is currently putting aside the possibility of having children because she is prioritising her relationship with this man and he doesn’t seem to want them with her, he may have the option of changing his mind later and she will not. As we all know.

Declaring that she should be considered equally dateable at 50 as she is at 35 won’t change the fact that many men don’t see it that way. If you don’t want to date sexist men then clearly that isn’t a problem for you, but based on what OP’s friend has been willing to put up with from this bloke, it’s less clear that she’s the confident self-sufficient woman you are. OP’s post is about trying to protect her friend’s happiness, not yours.

Thank you. You’re right, I do feel protective of her. But the thing is that she is confident and self-sufficient. It’s one reason why I don’t understand why she is always happy to go back to him and accept his treatment of her.

OP received backlash so attempted to dial back and rearrange her narrative about being concerned about a friend being taken advantage of when the first several pages were all about how pathetic her friend is and the title itself is about the low standards her friend has.

And how sad it would be to be 50 as a previously beautiful woman and single.

I see you and your misogyny OP..

@ThatNimblePeer I think suggesting this woman may have regrets about not having children if she finds herself single at 50+ is not believing her. (The OP has stated more than once her friend does not want children). Yes, she may end up with regrets. This can happen to any of us with any big life decisions. But it doesn’t mean she should choose her relationships now based on something that may never happen for her in the future. For starters it’s not very fair for her to date men who do want children when she is seemingly quite certain she doesn’t want them. It’s just an utterly ridiculous argument to make in this situation.

Continuing to parrot the tropes of misogynistic men, and telling women to just accept it as reality, is not a good look.

I don’t think that a) piling in on a woman who has supported her female friend through an upsetting abortion when her male partner left her in the lurch and b) repeatedly attempting to gaslight her about her perception of a situation that she has personal experience of and we don’t, is quite the victory for feminism that you seem to think it is.

Billy Joel’s “my life” springs to mind

I’ve given more details as the conversation has evolved, that’s all. I never once said that she was pathetic. The examples I’ve given are a demonstration of why I think hew standards are too low.

I didn’t mean that no 50 year old women are attractive. But there are a lot less men in the dating pool at 50.