To ground DD for a week

[Starfire2000]

Last night DD13 had a meltdown. By the end of it, she had pulled out a handful of my hair, kicked, punched and scratched DH, all while screaming the house down.

I'm at the end of my tether here. I've canceled her friends coming over this weekend as a punishment, and removed her phone and all access to other devices.
My MIL thinks I'm being to harsh, as we suspect Dd is on the spectrum. I don't care, she cannot be allowed to behave like this. AIBU?

Uh-huh.

What are your qualifications?

I’m using NT to distinguish from ND.

Yes, you’re right they are. But I’m sure most people will have experienced having a shit week at work and then snapping at your partner when you shouldn’t. That’s a pretty normal experience I would say. We feel awful for it, but our defences are down when we are around people we are close to so we are more likely to snap at them than say, our boss.

Im trying to understand what it’s like from an ND perspective because I don’t have any experience or knowledge of it. So to me, an ND person will be the same except the ‘holding it together’ is harder and the ‘snapping’ becomes a melt down. I may be talking out of my arse, I just want to understand it.

Still think there should be consequences for violent behaviour. I’m just trying to understand why it happens in the first place

Teacher here! Children need boundaries and consequences and you are doing exactly the right thing. Without these boundaries behaviours will escalate.
There is much evidence of the impact of social media and games on behaviour. My niece was recently phone grounded and she made bracelets and became more pleasant as a result of not being on Roblox.
It may be hell to start with but by doing this you will reap the rewards in the long run.

Being ND isn't an excuse for violence she absolutely needs consequences for this behaviour as in a few years the police won't give two shits that someone Is ND

MA, why?

What is the definition of a typical brain then? What has science defined as a typical brain and if so why do teachers have to identify misconceptions that non- autistic children may develop during a lesson - I mean if all brains are the same then surely that wouldn't happen, right? They'd all process the learning in the same way if that was so?

The fact that kids will develop misconceptions and all learn at different rates and in different ways shows there is no typical brain.

I do not distinguish between the two. All are ND. All brains are different.

I agree there should be consequences for violent behaviour. It is never acceptable and it is always a choice.

You have to draw a line in the sand, violence is violence is unexceptable, especially as she is able to contain herself and not display this behaviour infront of her friends etc. You 100% did the right thing.

Of course there are variations in all brains, that is literally neurodiversity.

Neurotypical refers to a brain that follows an expected developmental trajectory in terms of language, social interaction, sensory processing and executive function. It doesn't mean identical. It means clinically not divergent.

Not everybody is neurodivergent, and so of course there is such a thing as neurotypical.

This thread is fucking awful, full of awful advice from people who have no idea about neurodivergence, particularly how it presents in girls. That includes both parents and teachers. Teachers typically know next to nothing about neurodivergence - just look at the problems ND children have in schools.

No, it's not acceptable for a child to lash out and hurt someone but she's not a "brat" and it's not a "tantrum". You can't discipline this out of her.

This happened because a very challenging day for her was wrongly managed, albeit with good intentions.

Of course it needs to be made clear to her that physical attacks are not acceptable. But all this tough talk about punishment and boundaries is unhelpful and won't make a fig of difference.

It sounds like too much stimulation and abrupt transitions. You need to help your DD manage by putting the right coping mechanisms in place.

You don't need to accept physical attacks but the root cause of this is nothing like an NT child lashing out to deliberately hurt someone. It needs to be dealt with in the right way or else it will just escalate or happen again, no matter what punishments you dish out.

For context, I'm autistic/ADHD with autistic/ADHD DC. I also used to run a nationwide help group for parents with kids who had additional needs.

You say ; She would never behave like this in front of her friends or teachers

my asd daughter does none of this behaviour in Front of friends and teachers as she is masking , your DD has been masking hard for a week no wonder she had a meltdown, it strikes me as there are types of meltdowns you find acceptable and others you don’t ? In my experience you don’t get to choose

to me this is very harsh and prolonged punishment

SeN parenting is hard , you asked for opinions I think more understanding and less punishment

Does she like her hair stroked? Many teenagers are hyper sensitive to this and those with autism can be more so.

There is a large gap between punishing for the sake of it with no real impact and allowing to get away with murder.

This thread really is filled with terrible comments.

As a start there’s no way to generalise. My friend has an autistic son who would feel 0 remorse. He has no empathy at all. He’s nonverbal, can’t be left alone, etc etc etc. So he’s very high needs, all the time.

My daughter is stereotypical of autistic teenage girls. She needs to be very deliberate in how she spends her time in the world to avoid a meltdown. And yes we work on it and yes we have therapy and extra support at school and she has rules and chores and homework and expectations. But despite all of that - we don’t always get it right. Sometimes we think something will be ‘worth’ the effort and it turns out we judged it wrong. Sometimes there’s more to an activity than we pictured so she’s already struggling before we’d expect. Sometimes she has her period and everything gets 100x more dramatic.

And so sometimes she has a meltdown. And yes she’s always embarrassed after and yes she feels very, very ashamed and after it’s over we find a calm way to talk about it to avoid a repeat- but we aren’t perfect and we can’t always be sure where her limits are. As she intends to live in the world and have lots of interesting experiences in her life, I work with her to challenge herself at times. Sometimes something is much easier than we’d think it would be too.

I do have a hard line on violence - of course I do. She had to learn though and we had a bad stretch when she was younger. But the consequences work much better if they’re immediate. The prolonged punishment and multiple punishments are unlikely to be super effective

Always important to figure out what might be better to try the next time now that it’s over. Working towards bedtime earlier, having a slower transition, having an empty weekend after a fun week, playing some music to focus on, whatever… lots to try.

Any comment here that mentions they have no experience with ND please ignore. Just like I would avoid jumping in on a chat about a child with any number of other challenges because I know nothing about it.

Maybe these ways of "helping her regulate" aren't helping her as much as they should. My guess is that (espeically if she does have autism) she needs quiet and routine and a lot of "alone time" after getting home from a big trip. I'm sure the trip is good for her in many ways but it is also massively challenging and over-stimulating. Hours of hair stroking might be stimulation rather than calming. Next time she goes away (or does something similarly challenging and out of the ordinary) you may need to plan a much calmer less interactive and more routine follow-up for when she gets back and rehearse with her "what will happen after you get home" before she leaves. Maybe!

I would do some punishment, not because it will stop her doing it again (it wont, sorry!) but because it will stop her learning that violence is ever consequence-free. She does need to experience that there are always consequences for physical attacks even if she "can't help it", if you're hoping that she will lead an independent life in future. Hopefully by tomorrow she will have rested and you will be able to plan and then talk to her about suitable consequences.

Good punishments are fixed term. If it's calming for her not to see her friends at the weekend but have some time at home that could be good. And instead of just taking things away you could give her a consequence that's pro-social, like a helpful chore to do for a week. That will help her to start feeling better about herself again.

All the time you make excuses for her behaviour, she’ll never take responsibility. She needs to learn these outbursts will not get her anywhere and are of some consequence. YANBU 🙂

So she does have some self control then?😣

I totally agree she should not attack you or any other person.
She is old enough to redirect her anger to something else. You tried really hard and I hope you are ok. Xx

I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I am not fully familiar with autism, my expertise is more on ADHD. I do believe based on my experience so far and the studies I have done that emotional regulation can be learnt and some of the "meltdowns", aggressive behaviours etc can be attributed to children not learning to regulate when very young for various reasons. Before this gets interpreted wrongly, I am talking generally, I do not know anything about your circumstances. A lot of learnt behaviours, coping mechanisms that children learn are attributed to neurodivergence but it isn't 100% the case. It is not meant to put anyone with children on the defence, it is just a fact and reality I encounter on a daily basis. If she is amenable, working with a Somatic Experience Practitioner could be very helpful as she can learn ways to regulate her nervous system when overwhelmed.

My understanding is that what starts as a "natural" uncontrollable behaviour can be (accidentally) reinforced and gradually become more of a learned behaviour. People can have "some self-control" but still not have "enough self-control" to keep it in after a whole week of keeping it in. I never found the distinction between a "tantrum" and a "meltdown" any use, in some peple they are very different but in other people they're mixed up. Even if the parents never "give in" they're both a release of physical/emotional tension which is self-reinforcing and especially if the child has low empathy (not all people with autism do) it's easy to feel afterwards "well I feel better now so what's your problem?"

So however little she wants to do it, I would want an apology (can she do that?) and for her to accept consequences. For her own sake as much as yours.

She hit you because you are her "safe person" which might not be so bad if she was two but at 13 you are not a safe person for her to hit. No-one is.

Autistic or not, she has to learn that that sort of behaviour is not accceptable. I have two severely autistic niece and nephew…severely… both never attended mainstream, both non verbal, both will need supervision for the rest of their lives…my sister gave up her career as a corporate lawyer to homeschool them and learn to be a therapist herself in dealing with autistic children and she would not and did not tolerate such violence or behaviour. Her kids are now a joy to be around in their twenties, they still have meltdowns but somehow they know not to be violent or destructive as she has never accepted such behaviour..

And the responses on here are why behaviour in schools is so awful. OP you are completely reasonable grounding her. On the spectrum or not, it is not acceptable to attack you.

Autistic with an autistic child and I agree with this - even in a meltdown you are still aware of your surroundings on some level and it is almost always possible to avoid injuring yourself or others deliberately if you really want to (excluding a very young child who hasn't learnt any emotional control or an adult who will not ever be capable of learning it).

She needs to be taught that attacking others is really serious and that she can't ever do it for her own safety - on two levels. Firstly, because a teen or adult who attacks someone might end up with a criminal conviction for assault/ABH/GBH etc, and Secondly, because there are many people not as understanding as you who might just turn around and hit or slap her back.

If grounding her at 13 is effective in underlining this for her own protection, then so be it, that is not a cruel or disproportionate response.

@Jimmyneutronsforehead , you explain things so well, I've learned as much, if not more, from your posts than on courses I've been on at work (many of our clients are ND).

Thank you, and all the other posters who've shared their experiences in such an informative way.

Personally I'd be calling the police! You're not being harsh enough!

Poor kid lost control. Once that happens she needs love, understanding and lots of support to understand what happened. She doesn't need punishment.