To ground DD for a week

[Starfire2000]

Last night DD13 had a meltdown. By the end of it, she had pulled out a handful of my hair, kicked, punched and scratched DH, all while screaming the house down.

I'm at the end of my tether here. I've canceled her friends coming over this weekend as a punishment, and removed her phone and all access to other devices.
My MIL thinks I'm being to harsh, as we suspect Dd is on the spectrum. I don't care, she cannot be allowed to behave like this. AIBU?

No it’s not but this isn’t even close to meeting them based on what’s described here.

I would suggest professional input largely focused on recognising emotions and regulation support.

I am autistic but was brought up to understand that I couldn’t attack/lash out at people, no matter what.

Autism is not an excuse for violence, ever.

I think removing devices and grounding her is absolutely the way to go here.
And before the SEN mob come at me. I shall repeat again that I am autistic, but it is not an excuse for violent behaviour.

No what she did was totally unacceptable bit what on earth do you think grounding would do? Sure it will make you think you have done something so may make you feel 'better' but it is useless

This is not normal so she needs serious help

You're very welcome. Everyone deserves to have genuine questions answered with genuine compassion.

I am also autistic and I am so fortunate that I grew up with the right support system to recognise and understand my triggers, without shame in a family that understood and supported coregulation.

This largely helped me avoid violent outbursts.

The OP and her daughter haven't had that support. Violence during meltdowns isn't an intentional act of violence, it's a nervous system response. It is absolutely unacceptable for anyone to be violent to anyone however each autistic individuals behaviour, profile, and needs vary so significantly that without the right support, it's very difficult to change that behaviour simply by deeming it unacceptable. You can't think or act logically when you're in a crisis state.

I think some consequences are fair as potential ASD or not I think some things are unacceptable like physically attacking.
However a weeks grounding, cancelling her friends coming over and removing all devices is too much and starts to loose meaning.
It sounds really tough for you all though.

My daughter is 12 and autistic and has meltdowns. It’s really tricky but mostly I think punishing for something outside their control is not ideal. Appreciate there’s behaviour as a young teen which can be challenging without the added issues, but this sounds entirely predictable and like it’s worth considering how to respond next time.

As a thought - I wouldn’t personally make plans for a few days after a trip. My daughter wouldn’t cope and would absolutely find it difficult after days of masking. She was super deregulated the entire weekend after her p7 trip -5 days of confusing food, little sleep, something odd about the lights in the dorms, wet shoes… etc etc etc. I took the day off when she returned and she stayed in pjs for about 2 days after.

My daughter would never ever behave for anyone the way she behaves for us. She is always perfect in public. Super typical for autistic girls. So whatever happens at home is really unlikely to bleed into other areas. You’re safe, the world isn’t. She trusts you and that’s great.

so I agree that a quiet weekend is a good idea but personally I’d let it go. Spend time with her, cuddle on the couch, eat easy safe foods, just meet her where she’s at and hopefully she’ll get to a better place. I absolutely wouldn’t rehash it all many times - she’s probably really upset with herself already.

Quite.
While the family and school can 'put things in place' to stop her blowing her top, members of the public may not and future employers may not. If she goes off on one and loses it in the workplace and attacks a colleague - can you imagine? Or in public if someone does something she doesn't like?

This is an entirely reasonable position. Yes, SEN children struggle to regulate and find it harder to control behavior but not impossible. If there are no consequences there is no hope she will ever get better. How will she cope with this as an adult?

Handhold from here. Sounds like you are doing great in an extremely difficult position. Hope you have some way of looking after yourself too.

I'm not entirely sure what you are asking here OP. Just if the grounding is disproportionate?
I don't think it is necessarily overly harsh but neither am I sure it will have any positive effect on your DD's behaviour. It depends if you intend it as a punishment or a means to improve your DD's behaviour. I think it will succeed as the former but probably not the latter.

My ASD DD was a bloody nightmare to live with between the ages of about 13 and 17. She was not ever violent however just horrible to live with. However I knew that she was having an unbelievably difficult time coping at school, coupled with raging hormones. I generally chose not to punish her behaviour as she had also expressed suicidal thoughts and was self harming on a minor level and I feared it would escalate, but I spent hours silently weeping at the things she said to me.
Do you think your daughter can self regulate enough not to be violent towards you? If yes, then you need to have a very clear discussion with her about boundaries. If she has empathy then tap into that. If she is genuinely out of control and can't help the violence than you need urgent professional help as I had a friend whose ASD DS progressed to the use of weapons to threaten his mother.

Either way OP I think you have a difficult few years ahead. I'm not sure this will be of any comfort but my daughter is now 28 and a genuinely lovely person. We have a really good relationship and she occasionally reflects on her teenage years and says she barely recognises the person she was then and has expressed huge amounts of remorse over her behaviour towards me. She said I was the only person she felt really safe to unleash all her bile on as she knew I'd always love and be therefore her despite her behaviour.
Last thing, ignore the grandparents. They won't have any idea of the extent of what is going on and even if they do it, is literally none of their business how you parent.

I think you're doing the right thing, she has behaved appallingly and needs consequences. While she may have been having a meltdown, she still has some self-control eg she didn't smash her phone

She needs to learn to exercise her self-control more, and you're doing the right thing in helping her to do this. I'm sure you can get lots of tips from resources on how to manage autistic and/or demand avoidance girls.

I hope things get better for you all.

You can't equate coping techniques for children and adults - children have far less control.

As a likely autistic adult (with lots of diagnosed family) I have learned to manage my own stress levels. If I have a hard day I'll reduce demands myself. I might stay up much later than usual, eat crisps for dinner, watch loads of rubbish tv etc. I let myself do what I need to do to recover.

As a child there's often a lot less options for that. The meltdown coming at bedtime was probably because there hadn't been long enough for her to recover and was being sent to bed in a state she wasn't yet ready to manage her emotions.

For the person who suggested encouraging a child to mask in their own home. That's a horrendous idea - being forced to mask is often correlated with self harm and suicide.

I've never had to deal with autism. But the idea I have in my head is to mask when you're in public, melt down in your room/private place away from everyone else and then return to the real world.

The OP tried

Her dd went after her

As the mum of 2 boys with asd and adhd I think your punishment for her behaviour is very reasonable personally!! She needs it spelling out to her firmly that her behaviour is NOT acceptable and autism etc is ZERO excuse for physical violence

But if that was the case then at some point that would also happen with friends and teachers as if you cannot hold it any longer then that point could be reached at school or when out with mates. The fact it never does says a lot.

Yes. It says she’s autistic and presenting exactly as many other girls do.

my daughter has had endless meltdowns at home. We had a stretch when she was 9/10 and getting used to school post covid where it was constant. Not a single time in school or if anyone else was around. It wouldn’t be possible for her and probably 90% of the people around her have absolutely no idea she’s autistic.

Nope it doesn't and she is presenting how many girls do regardless of SEND or not. Many kids no matter what do not hurt their friends/teachers but hurt their parents. They need to know it is not acceptable.

thats the thing - they do know it’s not acceptable…the idea taking a phone away etc really shows them it’s not acceptable is nonsense. Whereas something billed as punishment that amps up the temperature increases anxiety. And you're stuck in a shit loop.

they know they’ve done the wrong thing and hurt someone they love and feel awful about it.

But they do it anyway?

yes, because they’re out of control due to the support being withdrawn at bedtime. Anyway, this debate will run and run but I hope things improve @Starfire2000 I know I’ve wanted to run away many times!

So what you are saying is that if people with autism are out of control then that means all adults who are in jobs like teachers who are autistic are a risk to harming children? Absolutely disgusting comment as no they are not out of control at all.

The idea that every autistic child can't learn to regulate their emotions is just ridiculous. Autism is a spectrum and each individual child will need different support. Violence is unacceptable and there must be some sort of intervention and support put it in to stop it escalating.

Someone explained your daughters emotions well with the shaken up coke bottle. She had been masking all week, so you tried to put things into place to keep her calm and regulated( been there, still here, no judgement) what she needed was to blow. Talk to her about finding a safe way to let out her emotions ( not smoothing them over) examples might be dancing to loud music ( earphones) getting a punch bag, exercise, like running.... She can then use the more softer approach for regulating. She's also full of hormones which can be difficult for any teenager.

Tell her that the violence is not acceptable but you're willing to help her find another outlet for her feelings.

As for your punishment, we'll that's up to you, in my experience it won't work but I understand you needing to do something. Her grandmother will never really understand until she's in the thick of it herself. I'm a grandmother looking after her asd grandson because her asd daughter can't look after him, another grandmother has stepped in to look after his siblings so you won't hear me giving them a hard time.

I know you're exhausted and both doing your best but don't be afraid to ask for help, in fact, shout! until you get what you need. 💐

Very often children have different 'coping' mechanisms at school. My son used to dig his fingers into the palm of his hands, scratch his arms, go to the toilet to hit his head off the wall etc. Just because e.g. a teacher doesn't see an issue happening doesnt mean it's not occurring. He was high masking and scared of breaking rules. But in his safe place he would meltdown.

Not really.

Shame is a huge emotional suppressor but it isn't an emotional regulator.

It's highly shameful to have these outbursts in front of the general public, but it doesn't stop the bottling up effect.

I never rip the skin off my feet till they bleed in front of other people when I'm overwhelmed but I do at home and I can't help it.

I also never had meltdowns at school, but I did at home. That was a massive part of my diagnosis assessment discussion.