To ground DD for a week

[Starfire2000]

Last night DD13 had a meltdown. By the end of it, she had pulled out a handful of my hair, kicked, punched and scratched DH, all while screaming the house down.

I'm at the end of my tether here. I've canceled her friends coming over this weekend as a punishment, and removed her phone and all access to other devices.
My MIL thinks I'm being to harsh, as we suspect Dd is on the spectrum. I don't care, she cannot be allowed to behave like this. AIBU?

I think what you are doing is fine, my boy has melt downs. Physically attacking anyone is unacceptable regardless of SEN. He can have a meltdown, he can get angry, but he doesn’t get to break things in the house or attack anyone. As parent you need to prepare children for the world, they can’t attack people when they are adults without consequences. So they need to learn that it is unacceptable as children. Tell your MIL to back the fuck off, she doesn’t have to deal with it 24/7.

@Devon1987 this is my thinking, too. She can meltdown, she can cry, rock, whatever she needs, I would never punish that. But hurting people or damaging property is unacceptable and there must be consequences for that.

i think you are right. She cannot attack you or anyone else. Unacceptable at her age and needs dealing with - she can’t head into young adult years attacking people because she can’t have what she wants.
It’s not you mil business. She wasn’t the one missing a clump of hair.

Physically attacking people is unacceptable.

the issue in question is whether the punishment will mean she stops doing it/is less likely to do it again.

it sounds like she was back from the school trip and you were expecting trouble as a result.

if she is autistic and it really is a meltdown then punishment won’t make it less likely to happen again.

the more obvious step if she is autistic is to remove the triggers - so conclude that the trip was too much for her and next time she doesn’t go.

No problem

You will get some opinions from other SEN mums who let their kids away with murder and others who have just heard of SEN telling you its their "outlet". It absolutely is not, and more times than not, you dont need to treat a SEN child any differently for bad behaviour etc

Sounds like you and your DP are disciplining well, so best of luck 😊

If you think your Autistic daughter is a spoilt brat and needs punishing for every meltdown you need to educate yourself on ASD in girls, you can't 'punish' or even 'parent' them in the same way as NT kids. She attacks you and not her friends as you are her safe space. She probably spent the whole trip masking so is utterly exhausted.

Agree @Octavia64 you can make it clear a behaviour is not acceptable without applying a punishment - mostly because it can re-trigger it all.

But maybe you’ll have to see if it does or not. Certainly my DD is made to understand very clearly that she’s hurt me and my feelings matter.

My dd was younger when the attacking meltdowns were severe but we certainly did try taking stuff away. What actually helped was improving the school environment.

good luck @Starfire2000 it’s properly
awful and you have my sympathy. That is indeed the problem with the strategies chat, sometimes no preventive action works.

there are a few female authors (smale, Brady) who talk about autistic girl rage, they were the first people I’d ever heard talking about breaking things etc as nobody wants to talk about their kids attacking them.

The age of criminal responsibility in England is 10/ Scotland 12

If she'd attacked someone like this in the street, she'd be in trouble with the police.

YADNBU OP. Stand your ground

If you suspect neurodivergence, get an assessment and input from psychology to help her regulate her emotions and for you to contain the environment and manage potential triggers for her. Unfortunately meltdowns mean the person really isn’t in control at that moment so a consequence will punish her but won’t help it not happen again which I assume is your desire.

What was put in place to help her cope with the trip? Why didn't that work?

If she was so upset that such high intensity co-regulation didn't work the logical assumption is that the trip was totally unsuitable for her needs. I appreciate it's hard without a diagnosis but somehow she's been let down to get into that state if she isn't usually.

My AuDHD son had horrendous meltdowns every day after school until proper support was put in place. No amount of boundaries or consequences would have made a difference. Now he's on a bespoke timetable it's all stopped. He can even manage school trips again.

I really feel for you and think you've done the right thing, but I always found that grounding my son made it worse for me, like I was the one being punished, especially if I banned devices at the same time. He would complain so much I'd feel like I was going mad.

@Starfire2000 you sound like an amazing mum. All the effort you went to to ensure her return from her trip was managed well.
You obviously know your daughter well and the fact you sat with her and stroked her hair sounds like you have a good bond usually and you’re her safe space.
Being wired differently/ ASD is not an excuse for that level of poor behaviour when it verges into violence. You have done the right thing - and she needs to know she’s crossed a line and apologise.
It’s so so hard to negotiate through.
when things have calmed down - could you discuss with her a way she can also get rid of her rage? Punch a pillow or something?
Hope you’re ok x

OP we were the same and after a black eye I was explicit that I would call the police next time. Alongside all the other strategies and more nurturing approaches. There is need but also choice. Mine managed to never repeat the episode. A friend who thought was a bitch not meeting needs has continued to suffer violence and unkindness.

If you suspect she is "on the spectrum", have you asked for a referral for an assessment?

What exactly were the circumstances when it was time for bed? Was she having her hair stroked whilst watching a film, and then being told "that's it, off to bed now"? Because if she is ND, that would be enough to send her into a meltdown.

I don't agree with grounding her, taking away all access to her devices, and stopping her friends coming round. What is she going to do with herself? Maybe just pick one. I never restrict all devices, just because it is unbearable for an ND person, as they're often used for self regulation.

Is there anything else she could take her frustrations out on? Maybe a punch bag in her room, or some big cushions.

It’s nothing to do with your mil but I would absolutely ground for a week. Having special reds is no excuse for bad behaviour.

And I absolutely recognise you can’t parent away all violent outbursts for all children but when you can you absolutely should.

It's a tricky balance to manage.

Think back through all your interactions of the evening, and see if you can spot a trigger as this will help you all to not repeat it again. Was the transition from hair stroking managed well? Considering she was away on a school trip she was bound to be ready to blow, like a powder keg waiting for a small spark.

You might be in for a bad couple of years as she goes through puberty. It should improve again after.

I think the main thing is limit the devices.
For one thing it's a distraction from facing up to reality / responsibility for their actions.

My friend's daughter got very overwhelmed with sleepovers and wouldn't be right after it at all.
Your daughter might need help regulating.
TBH I wold agree with what you are doing but I would suggest it in a more permanent and controlled way, to help keep her regulated rather than to punish her.

She was obviously tired absolutely over whelmed from coming home from a trip - I know this well having an autistic child myself. We went through similar. We made it very clear that there are consequences to the choices they make- good and bad. They might need help making those choices - whether that learning how to manage their behaviour or putting something in place to help them navigate it - as you tried to do by taking the day off.

We made it clear that hurting anyone on the house or damaging anything had a consequence and was not acceptable. I would say if you want to kick the door then that is your choice but if you do that then you are choosing to accept the consequence of that, and you own that. It was hard and didn't happen over night but we now very rarely see this behaviour. There is lots of praise and recognising that it is hard sometimes but also finding those positive behaviours and decisions to talk about. My child needs to know that this is not acceptable now and forever.
I would have a conversation when you are both calmer and let them know exactly how you feel and how unacceptable it was and how you are going to move forward.

i think following to another place and pulling out the hair is where the line crosses into consequences as @ellie09 said it isn't teaching your child that physical attacking is ok under any circumstances

failure you to reduce this behaviour could have you ending up in a DV cycle with your child whenever they get dysregualted.

sorry about this OP you must be worn out

If you knew she was going to be dysregulated and thus needing to take time off work anyway why would you send her in the first place?

Im autistic, my child is autistic, and if you suspect yours is too, to the degree you knew you would have to take time off work to help her regulate as it's out of her routine would it not just have been better to say no you're not going on that trip?

You need to find better ways of coregulating and sticking to routine if these changes and transitions cause such intense outbursts.

It's actually hard enough to keep and maintain friendships when you're ND without your parent's withholding them as punishment for a nervous system response, irrespective of how severe that response was.

Meltdowns aren't good teaching moments.

I can appreciate she is undiagnosed and you've not had any support and now she is in her teens and physically much stronger so you need to be seeking a diagnosis and looking up appropriate ways to de-escalate. With enough evidence you could even apply for DLA and pay for some private ND affirming therapies.

Could the two hours of hair stroking have been too much?

You know your child, I'm just thinking my severely autistic relative who loves having his arms stroked would have felt massively over stimulated after two hours non stop.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I think you're absolutely right to make clear this isn't acceptable and there are consequences, asd or not.

All those people telling OP to just ‘get an assessment’. You do know she could be waiting years and years for this? But she needs support and advice now.

Sending hugs to you OP. I understand where you are coming from.

I guess you will have to see if the ‘punishment’ works. If it doesn’t, then it could just be an unnecessary stress for all of you. And you will have to try and find out what works for next time. It sounds like you put so much effort into helping her feel calm after the trip, but it didn’t work. You did your best. I suspect nothing could have prevented this meltdown after the school trip. X

Who had the sensory swing etc idea? Why were this measures put in place? Is there any assessment going on?