To ground DD for a week

[Starfire2000]

Last night DD13 had a meltdown. By the end of it, she had pulled out a handful of my hair, kicked, punched and scratched DH, all while screaming the house down.

I'm at the end of my tether here. I've canceled her friends coming over this weekend as a punishment, and removed her phone and all access to other devices.
My MIL thinks I'm being to harsh, as we suspect Dd is on the spectrum. I don't care, she cannot be allowed to behave like this. AIBU?

Of course she could be waiting years for this.

The best time for a referral would have been years ago. The second best time for a referral is right now.

FWIW I was assessed on the NHS last year and the entire process only took 4 months. It's not guaranteed to be an extremely long wait. My sons assessment only took 11 months start to finish also NHS.

So having prepared all of it how did the going to bed trigger it?

you have go let go of the anger - there is a reason it is you and at home these are her safe spaces and punishing her wont help

she clearly got overwhelmed and it was too much but talk to her explain that violence is too much and how it work going forward

the idea that a diagnosis is a gateway to support dealing with attacking meltdowns is interesting - I’ve yet to find any strategy that works in the moment, or even any violent meltdown strategy that isn’t just ‘leave them alone and reduce demands’ - it’s all understand why it happened and put things in place so they can regulate.

it used to drive me mad -
you can’t get someone who is following you and attacking you to leave you alone.

as for not doing trips, it’s hard to know before you try something how it’s going to go. Not every meltdown is avoidable.

bedtime is an absolute flashpoint for us, it’s as though there is distraction from the anxiety/dysregulatuon until at bedtime there’s a sudden transition to no support.

I am the mother of two children with ASD and 2 grandchildren with the same. I strongly believe children with additional needs need really clear, consistent boundaries. No physical violence being one of them. One of my grandchildren has been quite violent to her mum, my DD. She also has had meltdowns at school. When I asked her if she’d ever hit her teacher, she said ‘of course not, he’s my teacher’, so I explained why she must never hit/hurt/thump her mother.
She has never done so since and that was a good couple of years ago.
Whether your punishment is too severe, only you and your DH know, we don’t, but I think you are quite right to punish that unacceptable behaviour.
Our children have got to live in the world, and they can’t hurt people when they are over stimulated/stressed/anxious/in meltdowns, they just can’t.
Obviously, I am talking about children/young people who are capable of some level of control, not children with such extremely complex disabilities that they are not.

YANBU for punishing this behaviour OP. You must be exhausted. You went out of your way to put all of those mitigations in place and she came after you and pulled your hair out? What happened in the lead up to this?

Also, can someone please explain how she is both not in control of this reaction but also would never behave that way around friends or teachers?

You think your potentially autistic daughter who is melting down, is a spoiled brat?

For my autistic teenager, the meltdowns come when she isn’t expecting something or it is outside her routine. Tell me about how you deal with bedtime with her?

Masking.

Then there is a degree of control. Yes, other people will put this down to masking and having the meltdown with you is evidence of you being her safe space but the reality is she can control this around other people. Her safe space needs to become one where you're not being as a punchbag. This is not acceptable. Have you thought about buying her an actual punchbag and explaining to her that this is what she uses when she feels unable to regulate? Re. Grounding. You can still ground her just reframe it as quiet time that she needs to enable her to regulate and be consistent that this quiet time will happen each time there's a meltdown at home.

if your dd school trips are anything like ours, one or several kids smuggled in a device and they stayed up really late watching stuff…so device free time post trip should be built in..:

You haven't actually said why she melted down OP?

Something must have happened for her to go from hair stroking in front a film to ripping your hair out?

YANBU OP. Such horrible violence should never be excused due to autism. She could have to suffer the consequences.

But if an adult has a meltdown and attacks someone, that is illegal and they might face prison time whether they're autistic or not.

Imo it makes sense to help children realise that there are certain lines that they cannot cross for their own and others' safety.

Consequences such as no screens or friends over make sense. If they can't be trusted not to attack someone, then they can't see their friends.

Yes. As another PP explained it's the coke bottle effect.

You spend all that time masking your discomfort, like a coke bottle being shaken, until you can't hold it in anymore which is usually in your safe space and then it just bursts out because there's just too much pressure.

That's a very simplified version of it.

You can know a behaviour is unacceptable but you can't control it when it gets to that point.

As someone else pointed out hair stroking can be overstimulating, but then there can also be trouble with transitions such as stopping the hair stroking or the environment changing like someone leaving the room.

Prevention is the best method to avoid this. Recognising triggers and avoiding them.

When you're ND it isn't always possible to voice your discomfort, or even identify what it is that is causing it. We also process more environmental information than our NT peers. If you imagine your brain has a filter so you can filter out all of the things that you don't need to recognise to go about your day we don't really have that. All of that environmental information is going in all of the time and processing that information can be overwhelming, so when you're trying to regulate and you need predictability and then changes happen or other overwhelming stimulus happen it can be the final straw.

So if you imagine it as the coke bottle effect, you've been shaken, that pressure has to go somewhere, and it's usually when you're at home or with the people you feel most safe with.

It isn’t an adult.

In the USA a 17 yo had a meltdown, beat a teaching assistant and consequently was sentenced to 5 years in jail.

Yes, I understand that. But part of a parent's job is to prepare their children to be functioning members of society. What do you suggest? To go from zero consequences to possible prison time as soon as they hit 18?

If she has asd you are going to
punish her for something she probably can’t control. This punishment will also not mean she will learn not to do it next time, it will be purely punitive. Does that sound fair to you? It doesn’t to me, but I am not her parent.

I would suggest ensuring their needs are met and put in place support to enable them to access society. Punitive measures do not work. If what you’re suggesting or supporting worked this would be a different discussion but it doesn’t.

I think we as individuals and as a society have to acknowledge that it is impossible to meet someone's needs 100% of the time. That's just not how life works. So then what happens?

On some level—even on a neurological level—masking is just another word for self regulation. If a child masks successfully in one setting and restrains themself from violence they can learn to mask in the home setting and refrain from violence. It may be difficult. It may be unpleasant. But the knock on effect of destroying a house or a caregiver is the potential loss of home and safety.

The only place where I see some potential for change in the OP’s previous strategy is that potentially they should have staged the movement out if soothing and into bed more slowly. For example decreasing the stroking of hair until it stopped being perceptible. Or slowly moving dd upstairs stair by stair. Or offering an alternative like sleeping downstairs.

Her body may need more time to process new demands by minutes instead of seconds.

OP I feel your pain...my 9 y/o DD used to he very violent, mainly towards me, in a meltdown. We tried everything, and I mean everything. I would recommend referring yourself to the early help team in social services, we got a lot of practical help through there. They did a home visit and spoke with DD which helped. I'm probably going to get flamed for this....but we started restraining our DD when everything else had been tried and we were concerned for her safety and ours. This was discussed with her before hand, and with a lot of cuddles and debriefing afterwards. As your DD is a bit older this may be more difficult practically. I just had it in my head that I wasn't going to allow myself to be hurt anymore. She hated being restrained, and her violent meltdowns have stopped for about a year now. Maybe speak with early help as a starting point, and also the autism charities were very helpful.

If MIL thinks she is such a little angel, she can deal with her.
By most peoples' standards, no 13 year old should be attacking their mother. No 3 year old should be attacking their mother.
Of course she shouldn't have friends over. She needs to learn that if she can't be trusted to not be violent, you have to keep them safe. Not only that, if she were to attack them, she would not have friends for long.

Do you know, this is the best explanation I have seen anywhere so far on what it must be like to be ND and having melt downs. Thank you for answering my question without sneering at me. That sounds exhausting!

I agree you need to get tough OP. She needs to learn her own triggers. Does she have an alternative way to offset this rage, like a punching bag or certain physical exercise she can do (wall pushes, weight lifts etc) if you haven't done so it might be worth finding something that she could do. That way you are acknowledging how she feels and giving her a way to react, and at the same time enforcing that there is no way she can assault you. Make rules very clear in advance, if she touches you these are the consequences. An OT might help and make her feel more in control too. Maybe other self regulation tips could be learned too, you shouldn't have to spend hours stroking her hair either.

As for the immediate issue, I think its a bit harsh and might be counter productive. I think cancel plans or take all screens or grounding but not all at the same time.

I feel bad for you OP, it sounds very hard.