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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Nigel Farage on abortions- slippery slope?

571 replies

Ph2028 · 28/05/2025 01:13

Following the speech, Farage was also asked about his view on abortion limits. He replied that he was pro-choice but that it was "utterly ludicrous" for abortion to be allowed up to 24 weeks, when a hospital would "move heaven and earth" to help a baby born at 22 weeks survive.

Aibu to think it may be a slippery slope to reducing the number of weeks until it is effectively banned...

Anyway it's a bit of a non issue on Nigel's part given nearly 94% of reported abortions happen before two and a half months of pregnancy.so very few abortions happen at 24 weeks.

Now i remember why I requested a tubal ligation when I was pregnant with first baby as I didn't want anymore in any circumstances. It was predictably denied so dh got a vasectomy instead.

OP posts:
ThejoyofNC · 28/05/2025 13:16

Wishingplenty · 28/05/2025 13:13

I think that people that hold extreme pro choice or prolife views are both two sides of the same coin. The abortion debate will never move forward because both sides both dig out such extreme views and examples to counteract each others argument. I like to believe that the vast silent majority on the subject are pro common sense, but I think most are too scared to voice this opinion for fear of being attacked by either side of the argument.

What exactly do you define as pro common sense though?

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 13:19

wordywitch · 28/05/2025 13:14

So you want women to undergo the same procedure you underwent but in a much more dangerous and unsafe situation, done illegally, with a much higher chance that they will die? I mean, at least you’re honest about the hypocrisy.

No, I’m saying that making out it’s as quick, simple and easy as swallowing the contraceptive pill/putting on a condom is an absolute lie.

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 13:26

PlutoCat · 28/05/2025 13:09

I am very sorry for your experience and your loss.

What you experienced demonstrates how vital it is that women are not forced into the position where they have to access abortions without proper medical support.

Edited

Thank you, that’s kind.

I honestly thought that taking those tablets would be pretty straightforward, that’s why it really concerns me if we as a society view abortions as such an easy, trivial matter that is the same as taking the contraceptive pill. That can even cause unpleasant side effects for some.

I feel I was misinformed about lots of things, that being one of them, but also I didn’t even know what a missed miscarriage was. I also had no idea about what goes on the NICU until my son was rushed there. Far more premature and seriously ill babies were thriving in there. It was an eye opener.

It’s made me look at a few things differently. Perhaps others would if they’ve been in a few unexpected situations.

We must be absolutely transparent about all options and risks instead of pushing one agenda.

wordywitch · 28/05/2025 13:33

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 13:26

Thank you, that’s kind.

I honestly thought that taking those tablets would be pretty straightforward, that’s why it really concerns me if we as a society view abortions as such an easy, trivial matter that is the same as taking the contraceptive pill. That can even cause unpleasant side effects for some.

I feel I was misinformed about lots of things, that being one of them, but also I didn’t even know what a missed miscarriage was. I also had no idea about what goes on the NICU until my son was rushed there. Far more premature and seriously ill babies were thriving in there. It was an eye opener.

It’s made me look at a few things differently. Perhaps others would if they’ve been in a few unexpected situations.

We must be absolutely transparent about all options and risks instead of pushing one agenda.

The tablets you took are the exact same ones used in an abortion. And you said it was horrendous with many unpleasant side effects and complications. So what makes you think women choosing this treatment for an abortion are doing so cavalierly?

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 13:35

wordywitch · 28/05/2025 13:33

The tablets you took are the exact same ones used in an abortion. And you said it was horrendous with many unpleasant side effects and complications. So what makes you think women choosing this treatment for an abortion are doing so cavalierly?

I genuinely don’t believe everyone is fully aware of the extent of the risks to your own health, no.

Youdontseehow · 28/05/2025 13:42

Menopausalsourpuss · 28/05/2025 12:51

Again extreme cases. The number of abortions relating to pregnant 14 year old is extremely low. And we simply don't know the numbers coerced into pregnancy or abortion so no point speculating.

Well you were the one who started the speculating: “As I said on another thread many women are coerced into abortion which is a feminist issue.” How do you know this? Empirically - not anecdotal or biased research?

Additionally - extreme cases are very useful in testing the robustness of an argument/theory so they should be welcomed into the debate - not set aside as an irrelevance.

edited to add - this is a shocking statistic that really needs more attention! If this doesn’t highlight that literally hundreds of thousands of women and girls are coerced into sex/pregnancy then I don’t know what does.

https://abc13.com/amp/texas-abortion-law-no-exceptions-for-rape-rape-related-pregnancies-roe-v-wade-overturned/14359073/

wordywitch · 28/05/2025 13:42

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 13:35

I genuinely don’t believe everyone is fully aware of the extent of the risks to your own health, no.

Risks of any medical procedure should always be explained. What makes you think women having abortions are not informed of the risks? When they come in for their assessment they are told in very clear terms what it entails and the side effects of the medication and risks of surgery.

Even having a surgical termination at 24 weeks carries significantly less medical risk than giving birth to a full term (wanted) fetus.

Digdongdoo · 28/05/2025 13:43

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 13:35

I genuinely don’t believe everyone is fully aware of the extent of the risks to your own health, no.

First of all, why assume other women are as ill informed as you were?
Have you ever experienced pre abortion healthcare? It is quite thorough in my experience.
And you aware that the alternative is an even more dangerous pregnancy and birth?

Glowingup · 28/05/2025 13:43

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 13:35

I genuinely don’t believe everyone is fully aware of the extent of the risks to your own health, no.

There are also significant risks in going through with a pregnancy, especially if the girl is very young or for people with existing health conditions. Yes there can be complications although yours was for a missed miscarriage rather than an abortion but generally abortion is safe and very few women have serious health complications as a result.

BeefBoogyOn · 28/05/2025 14:05

ThejoyofNC · 28/05/2025 10:56

Can you give a medical (or in fact any at all) reason to "terminate" a baby at 40 weeks?

I know a lady who had to "terminate" as you put it at 37w, this is otherwise known as compassionate induction, because her baby's brain and body had deteriorated so much that had he been born living, he would have only known suffering, struggling and then death.

Could you watch your precious, loved, wanted, named baby be born and then immediately start to suffocate and struggle knowing that there was absolutely nothing that medical staff could do to ease their pain and suffering?

I have had 2 TfMRs, at the gestation that Nigel Farage is talking about lowering. I can't even begin to tell you about the horror and pain from the shock of the anomaly scan, hearing a doctor tell you what has gone wrong inside your body whilst you were blissfully unaware.

To being sent to fetal medicine, the agony of having to wait for a confirmation appointment, to have a kind bereavement midwife sit with you, while you hear how your darling baby is going through be born to pain, to suffering, to struggle, with no guarantee of it ever getting better for them. "There is no cure for this". Hoping that between then and your next appointment, that your baby will pass in your womb, meaning the decision is taken out of your hands.

To discussing your options, and I don't mean "what kind of abortion would you prefer" like some people seem to think it is.

I mean options such as; Would you like the dress your baby? Bath them once they are born? Do bring their blanket, the blanket you'd bought to take them home from the hospital in, that's been sat with the stash of nappies you'd been collecting, next to some muslin cloths with little elephants on.

Bring some books that you can read to them. Ten little fingers and ten little toes, Each peach pear plum, Guess how much I love you.

We can provide a cold cot, you can stay with your baby in hospital until you are ready to go home. Spoiler, you are never ready to hand your baby over to a morgue assistant and say "please look after my baby, we love him so very, very much, we didn't want him too feel any pain" and hear them tell you how they don't leave babies on their own, that there's always someone there to keep them company.

Walking away from them and leaving the hospital empty handed except for a memory box is a traumatic experience like no other, when there are fresh, new mummies shuffling along behind their beaming partners as they carry the car seat complete with bundled up baby, looking just as peaceful and perfect as yours did when you placed them gently in the cot outside the mortuary door, in a room made to look like a nursery, tucked up next to their teddy that will go in the cosy moses basket casket with them.

And then you plan a funeral, and you choose music that you will never be able to listen to again and begin a life where you have to shield your loss from other people because you don't know how it will be received and who will judge you. You see your grief reflected in the faces of others.

I believe life is sacred and precious, that is why I "chose" for my children not to suffer. It's a choice nobody would ever actually choose to make.

The vast majority amount of anomalies cannot be detected prior to 20w, they are too small to see. 99% of terminations happen before about 10w, the only ones happening past about 16w+ are the ones where there has been a complication and a shock diagnosis. Nigel Farage needs to leave this alone. As early as possible, as late as necessary.

DungareesTrombonesDinos · 28/05/2025 14:09

Mnni · 28/05/2025 02:13

I do think any anti abortion rhetoric from right wing factions is to be treated with caution.

Personally I don't believe there should be a limit at all. As early as possible, as late as necessary.

This with bells on. Any reduction in time limit from the likes of Farage is indeed a slippery slope to where women who are brain dead are kept alive due to being in the very early stages of pregnancy.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/georgia-abortion-ban-woman-brain-dead-b2751990.html

Brain-dead woman put on life support for 3 months to carry fetus to birth

‘It’s torture for me. I come here, and I see my daughter breathing on a ventilator, but she’s not there,’ Adriana Smith’s mother says

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/georgia-abortion-ban-woman-brain-dead-b2751990.html

DungareesTrombonesDinos · 28/05/2025 14:11

BeefBoogyOn · 28/05/2025 14:05

I know a lady who had to "terminate" as you put it at 37w, this is otherwise known as compassionate induction, because her baby's brain and body had deteriorated so much that had he been born living, he would have only known suffering, struggling and then death.

Could you watch your precious, loved, wanted, named baby be born and then immediately start to suffocate and struggle knowing that there was absolutely nothing that medical staff could do to ease their pain and suffering?

I have had 2 TfMRs, at the gestation that Nigel Farage is talking about lowering. I can't even begin to tell you about the horror and pain from the shock of the anomaly scan, hearing a doctor tell you what has gone wrong inside your body whilst you were blissfully unaware.

To being sent to fetal medicine, the agony of having to wait for a confirmation appointment, to have a kind bereavement midwife sit with you, while you hear how your darling baby is going through be born to pain, to suffering, to struggle, with no guarantee of it ever getting better for them. "There is no cure for this". Hoping that between then and your next appointment, that your baby will pass in your womb, meaning the decision is taken out of your hands.

To discussing your options, and I don't mean "what kind of abortion would you prefer" like some people seem to think it is.

I mean options such as; Would you like the dress your baby? Bath them once they are born? Do bring their blanket, the blanket you'd bought to take them home from the hospital in, that's been sat with the stash of nappies you'd been collecting, next to some muslin cloths with little elephants on.

Bring some books that you can read to them. Ten little fingers and ten little toes, Each peach pear plum, Guess how much I love you.

We can provide a cold cot, you can stay with your baby in hospital until you are ready to go home. Spoiler, you are never ready to hand your baby over to a morgue assistant and say "please look after my baby, we love him so very, very much, we didn't want him too feel any pain" and hear them tell you how they don't leave babies on their own, that there's always someone there to keep them company.

Walking away from them and leaving the hospital empty handed except for a memory box is a traumatic experience like no other, when there are fresh, new mummies shuffling along behind their beaming partners as they carry the car seat complete with bundled up baby, looking just as peaceful and perfect as yours did when you placed them gently in the cot outside the mortuary door, in a room made to look like a nursery, tucked up next to their teddy that will go in the cosy moses basket casket with them.

And then you plan a funeral, and you choose music that you will never be able to listen to again and begin a life where you have to shield your loss from other people because you don't know how it will be received and who will judge you. You see your grief reflected in the faces of others.

I believe life is sacred and precious, that is why I "chose" for my children not to suffer. It's a choice nobody would ever actually choose to make.

The vast majority amount of anomalies cannot be detected prior to 20w, they are too small to see. 99% of terminations happen before about 10w, the only ones happening past about 16w+ are the ones where there has been a complication and a shock diagnosis. Nigel Farage needs to leave this alone. As early as possible, as late as necessary.

I am so sorry for your loss, your bravery is outstanding. Your babies were lucky to have such an amazing Mum💓

thepariscrimefiles · 28/05/2025 14:17

BeefBoogyOn · 28/05/2025 14:05

I know a lady who had to "terminate" as you put it at 37w, this is otherwise known as compassionate induction, because her baby's brain and body had deteriorated so much that had he been born living, he would have only known suffering, struggling and then death.

Could you watch your precious, loved, wanted, named baby be born and then immediately start to suffocate and struggle knowing that there was absolutely nothing that medical staff could do to ease their pain and suffering?

I have had 2 TfMRs, at the gestation that Nigel Farage is talking about lowering. I can't even begin to tell you about the horror and pain from the shock of the anomaly scan, hearing a doctor tell you what has gone wrong inside your body whilst you were blissfully unaware.

To being sent to fetal medicine, the agony of having to wait for a confirmation appointment, to have a kind bereavement midwife sit with you, while you hear how your darling baby is going through be born to pain, to suffering, to struggle, with no guarantee of it ever getting better for them. "There is no cure for this". Hoping that between then and your next appointment, that your baby will pass in your womb, meaning the decision is taken out of your hands.

To discussing your options, and I don't mean "what kind of abortion would you prefer" like some people seem to think it is.

I mean options such as; Would you like the dress your baby? Bath them once they are born? Do bring their blanket, the blanket you'd bought to take them home from the hospital in, that's been sat with the stash of nappies you'd been collecting, next to some muslin cloths with little elephants on.

Bring some books that you can read to them. Ten little fingers and ten little toes, Each peach pear plum, Guess how much I love you.

We can provide a cold cot, you can stay with your baby in hospital until you are ready to go home. Spoiler, you are never ready to hand your baby over to a morgue assistant and say "please look after my baby, we love him so very, very much, we didn't want him too feel any pain" and hear them tell you how they don't leave babies on their own, that there's always someone there to keep them company.

Walking away from them and leaving the hospital empty handed except for a memory box is a traumatic experience like no other, when there are fresh, new mummies shuffling along behind their beaming partners as they carry the car seat complete with bundled up baby, looking just as peaceful and perfect as yours did when you placed them gently in the cot outside the mortuary door, in a room made to look like a nursery, tucked up next to their teddy that will go in the cosy moses basket casket with them.

And then you plan a funeral, and you choose music that you will never be able to listen to again and begin a life where you have to shield your loss from other people because you don't know how it will be received and who will judge you. You see your grief reflected in the faces of others.

I believe life is sacred and precious, that is why I "chose" for my children not to suffer. It's a choice nobody would ever actually choose to make.

The vast majority amount of anomalies cannot be detected prior to 20w, they are too small to see. 99% of terminations happen before about 10w, the only ones happening past about 16w+ are the ones where there has been a complication and a shock diagnosis. Nigel Farage needs to leave this alone. As early as possible, as late as necessary.

I am so so very sorry for your loss.

I agree with every word you say about Nigel Farage needing to leave this alone.

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 14:20

Cherrytree86 · 28/05/2025 11:15

@OutandAboutMum1821

so not only do you want to deny women rights over their own bodies and force them to give birth, you want to deny people with terminal illnesses who cannot get better, full of horrendous pain, the right to end their suffering??
where is your humanity??

Where is your humanity in wanting to deny somebody the right to their potential life, and force preventing that onto other human beings (which doctors still are)? Are you glad you are alive today? I’m glad I’m alive today and my mother didn’t abort me despite being young, that’s for sure.

Both are open to abuse. Abortion serves irresponsible men far more than women. Assisted dying removes the responsibility of the state to provide proper palliative care, and is open to a whole load of abuse from both medics and family members. It’s a convenient money-saver with little to do with expressing proper humanity. Now that really is a slippery slope…you start it, next minute you’ll have healthy 20 year olds demanding the right to end their life for no reason other than ‘because it’s my right, my choice and I’m so empowered’. Very dangerous.

Glowingup · 28/05/2025 14:26

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 14:20

Where is your humanity in wanting to deny somebody the right to their potential life, and force preventing that onto other human beings (which doctors still are)? Are you glad you are alive today? I’m glad I’m alive today and my mother didn’t abort me despite being young, that’s for sure.

Both are open to abuse. Abortion serves irresponsible men far more than women. Assisted dying removes the responsibility of the state to provide proper palliative care, and is open to a whole load of abuse from both medics and family members. It’s a convenient money-saver with little to do with expressing proper humanity. Now that really is a slippery slope…you start it, next minute you’ll have healthy 20 year olds demanding the right to end their life for no reason other than ‘because it’s my right, my choice and I’m so empowered’. Very dangerous.

Really not the same. Someone who hasn’t been born yet has no consciousness. You are just judging it from your own perspective of being a human being that you are grateful you weren’t aborted. But if you had been aborted you wouldn’t know about it so you aren’t being denied anything apart from on a very abstract hypothetical level.
Restricting someone’s bodily autonomy to the extent of forcing them to go through birth against their will is horrific though.

Glowingup · 28/05/2025 14:28

And no it doesn’t serve men more than women at all. Women are the ones left to care for children, they are the ones who experience birth and pregnancy. For men the worst consequence of an unwanted pregnancy is a bit of financial inconvenience, for women, they might die. The right to reproductive choices is absolutely in women’s interests.

Sdpbody · 28/05/2025 14:31

0.1% of pregnancies end in abortion after 24 weeks.

These are not women just waking up one morning with a healthy baby and going "Oh fack it, I can't be bothered to be pregnant anymore. Better book in for an abortion".

93% take place between conception and 12 weeks.

1.2% took place after 20 weeks inc the 0.1 after 24 weeks.

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 14:35

Cherrytree86 · 28/05/2025 10:54

@OutandAboutMum1821

that’s you. Plenty of other women would rather be in the position she’s in now. She’s obviously pleased with her decision…can’t you just be happy for her?

I’m neither happy nor unhappy for her. I will hold her accountable though for so publicly putting across a message to young girls and women that it’s thanks to an abortion she is there claiming her award. That’s a dangerous message. Firstly, many people would choose a baby over fame any day. Secondly, I would have found her far more inspiring if that child had been there by her side whilst claiming her award. I know a lady who fell pregnant whilst at university, still obtained the highest possible degree and has gone on to achieve very highly in her career. Now that’s far more inspiring to me.

Have a Google of celebs on abortion…Phoebe Bridgers on how ‘easy’ it was whilst on tour, like she’d popped out for a quick coffee then back to work. Beyond callous, and nothing to be proud of.

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 14:37

Glowingup · 28/05/2025 14:28

And no it doesn’t serve men more than women at all. Women are the ones left to care for children, they are the ones who experience birth and pregnancy. For men the worst consequence of an unwanted pregnancy is a bit of financial inconvenience, for women, they might die. The right to reproductive choices is absolutely in women’s interests.

Tell that to any woman who’s been emotionally blackmailed and pressured into an abortion by a man and his family, especially those who have more influence than her.

Glowingup · 28/05/2025 14:38

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 14:35

I’m neither happy nor unhappy for her. I will hold her accountable though for so publicly putting across a message to young girls and women that it’s thanks to an abortion she is there claiming her award. That’s a dangerous message. Firstly, many people would choose a baby over fame any day. Secondly, I would have found her far more inspiring if that child had been there by her side whilst claiming her award. I know a lady who fell pregnant whilst at university, still obtained the highest possible degree and has gone on to achieve very highly in her career. Now that’s far more inspiring to me.

Have a Google of celebs on abortion…Phoebe Bridgers on how ‘easy’ it was whilst on tour, like she’d popped out for a quick coffee then back to work. Beyond callous, and nothing to be proud of.

Edited

As people have said she’s highlighting a very real issue in the US which doesn’t affect you and you are very lucky that it doesn’t. Why do you give a fuck? Do you say this shit to teenagers who get pregnant too? People can choose when they have children for themselves which MW has done.

MattCauthon · 28/05/2025 14:38

@OutandAboutMum1821 Abortion serves irresponsible men far more than women.

This might be the single most ridiculous statment from an anti abortion person I have ever heard.

Abortion serves irresponsible men more than women? Please tell me how you think this works. Becuase we know that's just 100% categorically untrue. Women are the ones who bring up the babies that are not aborted for whatever reason. Women are the ones who suffer financially, physically, mentally and emotionally. Not men.

The ONLY time I can think that an irresponsible man MIGHT benefit more from an abortion is when he's rich and/or famous and doesn't want the world to(or his wife) to know that he has fathered a child.

But let's be clear, in most cases, the man can and does just walk away if he wants to. He doesn't have any need to damage or risk his physical health. It's almost impossible to get him to take financial responsibility if he doesn't want to, and even if miraculously, a woman manages to get a claim in and going, it's a tiny fraction of the total cost of raising a child. He doesn't have to deal with the emotional and mental toll of now having a child who he is responsible for... unless he wants to.

I am starting to think your entire argument comes from watching bad American TV where rich politicians pressure their young girlfriends to have an abortion because otherwise they might be blackmailed.

JHound · 28/05/2025 14:38

The obsession with and sense of ownership over women’s bodies is wild to me.

Just.

Wild.

Glowingup · 28/05/2025 14:39

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 14:37

Tell that to any woman who’s been emotionally blackmailed and pressured into an abortion by a man and his family, especially those who have more influence than her.

Yeah because the problem in that situation is of course the availability of abortion, not the coercive relationship. Grand idea for a woman to instead have a baby with someone who emotionally blackmails her.

MattCauthon · 28/05/2025 14:41

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 14:35

I’m neither happy nor unhappy for her. I will hold her accountable though for so publicly putting across a message to young girls and women that it’s thanks to an abortion she is there claiming her award. That’s a dangerous message. Firstly, many people would choose a baby over fame any day. Secondly, I would have found her far more inspiring if that child had been there by her side whilst claiming her award. I know a lady who fell pregnant whilst at university, still obtained the highest possible degree and has gone on to achieve very highly in her career. Now that’s far more inspiring to me.

Have a Google of celebs on abortion…Phoebe Bridgers on how ‘easy’ it was whilst on tour, like she’d popped out for a quick coffee then back to work. Beyond callous, and nothing to be proud of.

Edited

I consider any woman who stands up and acknowledges that she made a choice for herself, and that choice allowed her to achieve the things in life that she wanted to achieve, a brilliant role model. Any woman who tells my dd that having bodily automony is 100% her right gets a big tick in my book.

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 14:45

MattCauthon · 28/05/2025 14:38

@OutandAboutMum1821 Abortion serves irresponsible men far more than women.

This might be the single most ridiculous statment from an anti abortion person I have ever heard.

Abortion serves irresponsible men more than women? Please tell me how you think this works. Becuase we know that's just 100% categorically untrue. Women are the ones who bring up the babies that are not aborted for whatever reason. Women are the ones who suffer financially, physically, mentally and emotionally. Not men.

The ONLY time I can think that an irresponsible man MIGHT benefit more from an abortion is when he's rich and/or famous and doesn't want the world to(or his wife) to know that he has fathered a child.

But let's be clear, in most cases, the man can and does just walk away if he wants to. He doesn't have any need to damage or risk his physical health. It's almost impossible to get him to take financial responsibility if he doesn't want to, and even if miraculously, a woman manages to get a claim in and going, it's a tiny fraction of the total cost of raising a child. He doesn't have to deal with the emotional and mental toll of now having a child who he is responsible for... unless he wants to.

I am starting to think your entire argument comes from watching bad American TV where rich politicians pressure their young girlfriends to have an abortion because otherwise they might be blackmailed.

Have you personally spoken to every woman who’s had an abortion? So you believe none have had it suggested to them by the father to be that they should get rid of it, that they would refuse to support them? Or that there aren’t parents who suggest that to their children? Then you live in a very sheltered world if so.

I volunteer on a hotline where I’ve personally spoken to many feeling the pressure in those exact situations. Start speaking to a wider range of women.

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