Nigel Farage on abortions- slippery slope?

[Ph2028]

Following the speech, Farage was also asked about his view on abortion limits. He replied that he was pro-choice but that it was "utterly ludicrous" for abortion to be allowed up to 24 weeks, when a hospital would "move heaven and earth" to help a baby born at 22 weeks survive.

Aibu to think it may be a slippery slope to reducing the number of weeks until it is effectively banned...

Anyway it's a bit of a non issue on Nigel's part given nearly 94% of reported abortions happen before two and a half months of pregnancy.so very few abortions happen at 24 weeks.

Now i remember why I requested a tubal ligation when I was pregnant with first baby as I didn't want anymore in any circumstances. It was predictably denied so dh got a vasectomy instead.

Do you mean that the bill is seeking to remove these as fetal abnormalities? Because I’m pretty sure they have always been termed serious abnormalities and there have been past campaigns to remove them that have failed, including one by a vicar born with a cleft palate.

The idea that women would only have sex with someone they want kids with is nonsense tradwife stuff (and yes peddled by Louise Perry and Mary Harrington - easy to have that view when you’re happily married etc but lots of women are in abusive relationships and the last thing they need is a baby). Women need to have the autonomy to make their own choices about their bodies and whether they want to be pregnant. That’s the end of it - it’s a choice for the woman and the woman alone.

Murdering foetuses? You are showing your true colours now. You are a fanatic.

As previous posters have said, banning abortion which is obviously what you would like, doesn't stop abortions. It just stops safe abortions.

Sorry yes my wording was wrong, I meant it is currently possible (even if it never happens, the idea that some sort of physical violence against a person is legal even if it never happens is unacceptable & this should be too).

I am by no means a tradwife advocate & I had an abortion in my early 20s. I am not trying to remove that right but I am saying something needs to change. We are one of the only western European countries where abortion has gone up (by quite a lot actually) rather than down in recent years. That is a deviation from other similar countries for some sort of reasons & we should be open to critically looking at what & why.

Tbh I agree with him. I’d like the limit to be 16/18 weeks or so

Again extreme cases. The number of abortions relating to pregnant 14 year old is extremely low. And we simply don't know the numbers coerced into pregnancy or abortion so no point speculating.

What do the anti abortion posters and think of the morning after pill?

Do you have stats for that because from what I can see the UK has a lower rate of abortions than many other European countries?

Quite the error to make there with the Bill - “omg did you know people are trying to make it legal to abort babies with clubfoot” errr no, I think you will find that few to no late term abortions take place for that reason even if technically that has always been permitted.

Yes traditionally "quickening" was the mark of personhood. This also aligns with neural tubes connecting & first brain activity iirc. I think that seems appropriate too.

I think it's preferable to a 24 week abortion of a healthy baby.

What do you think?

Do you think there's any difference or both just equally valid choices?

It would have been even worse news for women if Trump hadn't refused the idea of a national ban. Once again, what is the relevance to the UK, other than Farage aiding the Trump campaign? Oh right, Farage talks about abortion and all the haters immediately shout out Trump. What Farage is referring to has no connection to Roe v Wade.

Let’s see, we have the two child benefit cap, disability and carers’ support being slashed, the state of maternity care in the toilet, cost of living through the roof, absent fathers, a misogyny epidemic, extortionate childcare costs, reduced pay and career prospects, 18+ years of intensive parenting with little support, and pressure to stay thin, young, and beautiful for all eternity while also working and being a domestic servant on offer. All while being told not to scrounge off the state and don’t have kids you can’t afford or don’t want. So appealing!

The far right and the religious zealots are going to have to make motherhood far more desirable and supported if they truly want to reduce abortion. Until then, I am very confident in saying that being anti abortion is not at all about ‘saving babies’ but about a deep hatred and seething jealousy of women who don’t follow the wife-mother-servant handbook.

How much time have you personally spent in the NICU? Do you personally know what late abortions entail?

You do realise that even taking legal abortion medication carries huge risks which are not made fully clear to people?

How do I know? Well, because I actually had to take the exact same medication and go through the exact same procedure when I had a missed miscarriage. My body didn’t get the memo that it had died, I was at risk of severe infection, so had to take those same tablets. I was in one of the best hospitals in the UK and it went horribly, horribly wrong. I bled continuously for several days, blacked out at the hospital, needed my DH to help me use a bedpan, had to be very closely monitored for a blood transfusion. I wasn’t fully recovered for weeks, spent the first 2 weeks after laid up taking multiple iron tablets, bleeding and suffering from severe fatigue. I had no idea the extent of this, I thought it would be quick and straightforward. Sadly not. I don’t think this is publicised honestly enough.

Its not an experience I would wish on anybody.

Why though?

Just... why? What good do you actually think that achieves? Which lives do you imagine you are actually saving or improving?

What problem am I part of exactly? I absolutely support a woman's right to choose and am seriously pissed off that you suggest otherwise.

The law change bringing the limit down to 24 weeks, as I recall, was made in 1990, the same year my 23 week baby was born. I agreed reluctantly with that change then and still do now, for what I feel is a very good reason. During the 9 months when I spent time every single day in a neonatal unit, I saw and learned a hell of a lot. I witnessed a couple of babies born at 28 weeks that needed next to no medical intervention other than keeping warm. They could breathe unassisted. Now while this was not typical at that gestation it did sometimes happen. Personally I think that if a baby born at that gestation can pretty much manage on their own with some supervision, then it would be wrong to leave the limit for elective abortions for social reasons that high. Basically no baby born at 24 weeks could survive without ventilation, supplementary oxygen etc etc. That is why that limit seems fair to me. A line surely has to be drawn somewhere or would you support elective termination for social reasons right up to birth?
Abortion past 24 weeks is still allowed in the interests of the mothers health or if serious foetal abnormalities come to light. That seems a fair balance to me.

Actually the increase in abortion was seen in 2022 and was a 17% increase. Likely due to effects of pandemic on being able to secure decent contraception.
The key to avoiding abortion is to have an extremely efficient system of providing long term contraception such as the injection or coil. Most unwanted pregnancy is due to contraceptive failures such as forgetting to take the pill or condoms breaking.
I recently had a coil fitted. I had to wait eight weeks to get an appointment for it. It shouldn’t be that long. There should be walk in clinics with readily available appointments so that women can get themselves fully sorted and avoid unwanted pregnancy.

Well, it will be unlawful and therefore murder if the limit is reduced. I'm referring to 22-24 weeks. And I agree that it should be called murder - to abort a healthy and fully formed baby at 22-24 weeks.

Funny, you were very clear it was 15% coerced into abortion earlier.

It won’t be murder. Murder is a specific offence. You can’t commit it against anyone who has not been born. The offence in question is unlawfully procuring a miscarriage/abortion. That is not murder.

No, it still wouldn't be murder.

But glad we agree that you were wrong to describe legal abortion as such.

I think that for Farage this was pretty sensible thinking !

I am very sorry for your experience and your loss.

What you experienced demonstrates how vital it is that women are not forced into the position where they have to access abortions without proper medical support.

But you say people are routinely using abortion as contraception?

I think that people that hold extreme pro choice or prolife views are both two sides of the same coin. The abortion debate will never move forward because both sides both dig out such extreme views and examples to counteract each others argument. I like to believe that the vast silent majority on the subject are pro common sense, but I think most are too scared to voice this opinion for fear of being attacked by either side of the argument.

Just as well the legal definition of murder doesn't accord with your view.

So you want women to undergo the same procedure you underwent but in a much more dangerous and unsafe situation, done illegally, with a much higher chance that they will die? I mean, at least you’re honest about the hypocrisy.