Nigel Farage on abortions- slippery slope?

[Ph2028]

Following the speech, Farage was also asked about his view on abortion limits. He replied that he was pro-choice but that it was "utterly ludicrous" for abortion to be allowed up to 24 weeks, when a hospital would "move heaven and earth" to help a baby born at 22 weeks survive.

Aibu to think it may be a slippery slope to reducing the number of weeks until it is effectively banned...

Anyway it's a bit of a non issue on Nigel's part given nearly 94% of reported abortions happen before two and a half months of pregnancy.so very few abortions happen at 24 weeks.

Now i remember why I requested a tubal ligation when I was pregnant with first baby as I didn't want anymore in any circumstances. It was predictably denied so dh got a vasectomy instead.

Some abnormalities are just not apparent until that stage. I had antenatal care at a world-leading centre and they couldn’t rule some things out until that point. It’s not NHS delays, it’s foetal development.

Many children wouldn’t survive when born at 24 weeks. Certainly most with underlying health conditions wouldn’t.

no woman should be waiting until 20+ weeks for an abnormality scan!

Why? 20 & 21 weeks is the normal window of time for this scan as before 18 isn’t not accurate enough for many of the markers.

Many many many more women are coerced into pregnancy than abortion. Rape, controlling men, lack of access to contraception, incest, abuse. Should these women be coerced into giving birth? If the child is unwanted? And if the concern is for the child - how are they going to feel in later life if they find out they are the product of rape or incest?

Just because you “felt like a baby” from early on doesn’t mean every woman or girl does. Think about a 14 year old raped by a family member for instance. She might want to have the child but she might not, and that should absolutely be her choice.

being forced to have a severely disabled child at 23 weeks could bankrupt families now, let alone with all the medical costs. Any existing siblings lives irreparably limited and damaged.

I didn't say it doesn't happen. I asked if there were stats available.

The problem you have outlined for the women posting is abusive men, though. Not the availability of safe, legal abortion.

If that availability didn't exist, those women would be pressurised into back street abortions, as in ye good olde days that Farage wants us to go back to.

The limit was set at 24 weeks - brought down from 28 weeks actually - on account of advances in treatments, so the timing of the scan is determined by the 24 weeks rather than the other way around.

For some women/girls, yes, it will be.
For some, no it won't be.
They get to make the informed choice, not you.

Pretty much every comment on here includes a caveat for severe medical issues being treated differently

Many year ago when I was student, I was in a debate on abortion rights with a young man who was keen to see them banned. When it was put to him that this would lead to women dying through unsafe illegal abortions he replied ‘only a few probably’. I always think of him and his casual dismissal of the lives of ‘a few, probably’ dead women.

Yes I can, because we live in a democracy and I am entitled to my own opinion.

Example A- finds out later in their pregnancy a much-wanted baby will die as soon as they are born, there is nothing anybody can do about that, Mum may even die too. Mum needs to talk about that afterwards because she is inconsolable, trying to process why this has happened and raise understanding and awareness.

Example B- someone who is on their third avoidable, early abortion of a viable foetus minimising this with ‘oh well, it’s only a bundle of cells, it’s no different to using contraception’ and openly boasting about this as an empowered choice to anyone and everyone.

I absolutely have more sympathy and understanding for example A. I would listen to example A talking for hours. Example B I would have less time for.

Suppose you were told, God forbid, that your child had a horrible condition that meant they would only live a short time after birth and would spend that time in horrible pain and/or really struggling to breathe? Would you break legs to avoid miscarriage or termination in that situation?

Yes and unfortunately the baby doesn't get any say in it

Because it’s not a baby yet

It needs to be 24 weeks for medical terminations as the 29 week scan can find abnormalities that then need investigation which takes time so 24 weeks is needed for medical terminations at least I don't see how this can be reduced to 20 weeks

No it’s not, the scan timing is based on foetal development. It’s absolutely not linked to the abortion limit.
Countries that don’t have access to abortions still have anomaly scans during the same window of time, don’t be so ignorant.

He can have his views all he wants but a man cannot dictate to a woman on this matter. Your womb, your choice. Simple as.

@SofiewooI had my scans done at 18 weeks and was told by the NHS that this was the right time to have them. It's possible to have testing for certain conditions carried out much earlier - nuchal fold scans for ex. Maybe not everything can be caught early but there are things which could be done better.

Yes undoubtedly so I would say. You do realise that the majority of abortions involve taking a couple of pills right? Most women aren’t left traumatised at all by it. Even if they are traumatised by their own choice (important to clarify that we do not force anyone to have an abortion in this country - some women who have one may face external pressures but generally it’s a choice they make) then no that is not as bad as being forced to carry a pregnancy to term, give birth and live with the strong possibility of the child contacting you later in life and of your family members having contact with the child. Not to mention that the child themselves might have issues due to being given up at birth.

How do you propose we give an non-speaking embryo/foetus/baby a say? You, or anyone else, cannot speak on it's behalf. Even if it could have a say, the woman/girl has more of a say. 🤔

As late as necessary, as early as possible.

Pro-life is such a complete lie of a term. Pro-lifers don't give a shit about life. They don't give a tiny crap about the thousands of women who die each year because they can't access safe abortion. They just see their control over all those careless women slipping away, and that makes them angry.

For all those saying “babies can survive at 23 weeks” or similar - what about when we can take a newly fertilised egg from the mum and finish the growing in a lab? What then? No abortion because it can survive? As early as possible, as late as necessary- always.

The limit of 24 weeks doesn’t apply in cases of fetal abnormality though. I think it’s interesting to look at other countries in France where the limit is 16 weeks with similar medical exemptions to ours. In both countries it’s only about 1% of abortions that occur after 20 weeks.

I think my point is it wouldn’t make any difference to the abortion rate if it were changed due to medical exemptions. It’s not currently a problem and Farage will say anything to get on the news.

Well of course not. Legally, the foetus does not have personhood until it is born. It becomes a person in the eyes of the law on delivery. That's when it has rights.
Why should it have a say anyhow? For starters, it is incapable of doing so. Secondly, no woman should be in a situation where she has no control over her own body.

Well it could but I can’t see what the benefit would be? Only 1% of abortions are after 20 weeks and according to the RCOG the vast majority of that 1% are for fetal anomaly.

The reasons found for the tiny amount of 20+ week abortions outside of anomalies were

• Domestic abuse, particularly abuse which has worsened during pregnancy;
• Health problems of the woman herself, both mental and physical;
• A change in circumstances during pregnancy such as the loss of a partner or a serious illness diagnosis for an existing child;
• Late detection of pregnancy, often as a result of health conditions or hormonal contraception;
• Young women under the age of 18 who may have not realised they were pregnant or concealed it through fear.

I can’t see what would be achieved by reducing it and restricting the options for the few women and girls in these circumstances.

Nigel Farage would say anything to keep his nasty agenda in the public domain. He will promise anything to get elected. Bringing up abortion helps keep him on the front-page.
I wish he'd fuck off and mind his own business.