To wonder if there's any actual evidence that's trans women are not safe in male loos?

[Evedence]

I feel, as a FWR lurker, that I would have seen linked articles to bank up the fact that trans identifying men aren't safe in men's loos, and therefore that's the rational why women should budge up and accept trans identifying men in their spaces.

I'm pretty sure with a quick Google I could fund evident that trans identity men have made women's spaces unsafe (Kate delowski? The one who worked for a charity and made a masturbation video).

So AIBU to wonder what hard evidence there is?

See the attached screenshot of your post where you straightup post a link to this deception as though it were something a trans person had done. Absolutely no mention of it being an attempt to trap the police officer. Absolutely no mention this was a gender critical activist invading a pride event to foment further hatred against trans people. Just your uncritical submission of this as “evidence” of trans people acting against women.

The only reason the deception worked is because trans activists say this kind of shit all the time, FFS.

No, that person does not represent all trans people.

Your fallacious argument is akin to not interacting or sharing any space with Muslims because Abu Hamza exists.

They represent the views of a lot of trans activists.

Unless you think they're all undercover gender critical feminists.

I didn't say that it was a person with a transgender identity at all.

Please highlight where I did.

As I said, I knew it was not a person with a transgender identity. I did not say 'male person with a transgender identity'. I said 'Here is another male person'.

If you made an assumption based on your own personal bias, that is not something that I have written. But you have yet again made false accusations about me. If I believed that they had a transgender identity I would have written 'here is another male' and added that relevant phrase.

thanks though, for posting what you consider evidence. I am sure those reading along can see that you have made a jump based on your own assumptions.

Talk numbers not percentages.

But we should still welcome this person into our spaces, right?

Furious backtracking there.

You linked to the deception incident as one of two examples you shared where you claimed trans people were threatening women. In you last paragraph in that post you said

“But apparently, female people need to allow these threatening male people access to the spaces we need to be female only.”

…having linked an example of a GC activist pretending to be transgender and inventing a threat. And now you are trying furiously to create the impression you knew all along.

Come on. Seriously.

For the posters who think trans women should choose which toilets they feel most comfortable in, how comfortable would you feel sharing the toilets with the lovely Abbi Taylor (aka Martin Tarling) from South Shields? To fulfil his ‘nappy fetish’ he regularly deposited his excrement-filled adult nappies outside nursery, smeared the building and milk bottles with excrement and climbed inside the nappy / clinical waste bin for comfort. Given how many baby changing tables are still inside women’s toilets, you’d honestly be comfortable changing your baby in front of him?

No, the logic doesn't work here.

There is no expectation for any person to not be able to share spaces with people due to their religious belief. There IS legitimate discrimination allowed under the EA, where male people with transgender identities are classed as 'men', for female people to have single sex spaces that exclude male people. Part of this is due to the physical risk and the male patterns of criminality that requires specific segregation of sex for safeguarding. And privacy and dignity.

Male people cannot expect your assertion. Because there is no legitimate discrimination allowed based on the character that you have focused on.

The stats are misleading for another reason. They talk in percentages. As there are far more women than trans women smaller percentages represent many more women.

Should Muslims be welcomed on aircraft ?

Some fundamentalist Muslims have attacked aircraft in the past.

I think Muslims should absolutely be allowed on aircraft. You cannot tell by any biological marker that they are Muslim or not. It is a cultural identity they have adopted. Some of their fundamentalists advocate
violence and murder, and in extreme cases have perpetrated that violence.

If a non-Muslim turned up at a peaceful Muslim event - an Eid celebration for example - and dressed as a Muslim and held up a sign saying “burn the infidels” - we would rightly regard them as unhinged.

That’s what this nutjob did, and people on here have taken at face value.

I am not backtracking.

I know Harry is not a male with a transgender identity.

BUT if Harry decided that he was, he would have the access that you have being supporting on this thread. Straight away.

So, tell us, if Harry decided he had a transgender identity, would it matter to you whether he had access to a female single sex space? Because you don't seem to understand the points that are being made on this thread.

Instead, you are desperately trying to accuse posters of something that is false, and again, this is another false accusation you have made about me today, instead of having a discussion about Baker and other males with transgender identities who make posts meant to threaten or intimidate female people and whether female people should have any spaces designated as single sex that exclude them.

And Sarah Jane Barker?

At an advertised "trans rights protest march" in London this weekend? That's what Barker called it on Barker's Facebook page.

There has never been safeguarding criteria that keeps Muslims out of anything.

There HAS been safeguarding criteria that keeps men out of women's spaces. And you now want us to relax this criteria and allow people like SJB into women's bathrooms, changing rooms, prisons, rape crisis centres, domestic violence shelters.

That is what you are advocating for here. And we are all bigots for not agreeing with you. 🙄

Honestly, I never fail to be shocked at how little regard people like you hold women in. It's appalling.

Of course, now we are getting women - women born women - being challenged in women's loos if someone thinks they look 'masculine

I doubt this is happening as a butch woman looks like a butch woman. But in any event as soon as she opens her mouth all will be clear.

OK, so what about the vast majority of those who brandish similar placards, who are actually real trans people?

Aircrafts are also not segregated by sex and there is no legitimate discrimination available that would allow an aircraft with tickets open to the public to be discriminated by sex.

Unlike female single sex spaces.

Why did the police officer pose for a photo with him?

Why was his presence tolerated at a peaceful march?

Incitement of violence is a crime.

Now you want me to address your new fantasy scenario about this deranged guy Harry who dressed up and pretended to be transgender in order to make a fake threat and use it to entrap a police officer ? You want to know what would happen if this Harry person who was pretending to be transgender actually did become transgender ?

This scenario is frankly bizarre.

The thread is about whether transwomen are at higher risk of violence if they use a male toilet. My view from the beginning has been that it depends on the context, venue, circumstances, and that the transgender person needs to assess the risk and make their own call - regardless of what the law says - it’s about their safety in the moment.

How your weird speculation about a male GC activist making pretend threats while dressed as a pretend trans person in order to entrap a police officer then them going on to actually become transgender affects anything, I do not know.

"No, that person does not represent all trans people."

But Baker does represent some people with transgender identities. And many male people with transgender identities agree with Baker on this issue. That any of those male people with transgender identities that wish to access female single sex spaces, should do so.

Male people with transgender identities have even had 'piss protests' to convince the public and organisations to support their demand to access female single sex spaces. And this topless protest, was at least the second that I have seen over the past weeks with another in Edinburgh.

Baker's view that they should have access to female single sex spaces is a view that has also been supported by at least two male barristers with transgender identities who have stated they will continue to use female single sex spaces that are clearly marked as being female single sex spaces. And an ex-judge has too.

I'd like you to answer my question about all the very real trans people who display signs like this (and much worse than this).

"My view from the beginning has been that it depends on the context, venue, circumstances, and that the transgender person needs to assess the risk and make their own call - regardless of what the law says - it’s about their safety in the moment."

I know. That is my point. But it is not worth explaining it to you, you don't seem to be able to acknowledge the issues with your position at all.

I’ve already very clearly stated that extremist views among members of any community should not be taken to represent the views of the majority of that community. And this goes for transgender people too, as it does for any other community.

Most transgender people just want to peacefully use a toilet with dignity, avoid being subject to harassment or even violence, and get on with their day.

If a woman's rights activist carried a sign telling people to be 'afraid' I would be fucking horrified.