To have not realised prayers in school was still a thing?

[UnreadyEthel]

DS1 (5) started school in September. One of the reasons I chose the school was that it had no obvious religious affiliation, while another good school in the area is a Christian school. We are secular.

This morning DS1 mentioned over breakfast that they say prayers at school before they eat lunch. I was absolutely gobsmacked. It’s not something I’ve ever come across in non-religious schools (and I have worked in plenty, mainly in cities). DH, who is from the rural area we now live in, was less surprised. ‘I had to do it all the way through school and it never harmed me’. I have sent a polite email to the headteacher asking for clarification of their policies.

DS2 (3) attends the very small nursery next to the school. I asked at pickup today whether they say prayers there and the nursery teacher said ‘yes, of course’. When I asked if DS2 could opt out please she said they’d never come across the situation before, and whether I wanted her to tell him off if he joined in out of habit! I wonder whether they haven’t come across another child who wanted to opt out before because other parents aren’t aware it’s going on? And because they obviously haven’t read the forms I filled in when he enrolled. I also asked what they would do if there was a child of a different religion, but she didn’t know.

AIBU to think this is an outdated practice? Or should I just accept it’s something that comes with raising children in a more rural area of the UK?

So you're wanting a cosmetic change which won't slightly alter the underpinning Christian values shaping UK history? Yes because that's really going to happen. I'm very much reminded of the intolerance and ignorance around pulling down statues.

I'd probably less bothered by Christian assemblies in schools if they still taught the hymns that they will encounter at weddings and funerals. But my DC didn't learn them, except a few carols. They were replaced by utter dirge like "My God is a great big God".

I don’t want to undo the history. That’s why I want religion taught in school. I just don’t think children to be expected to practice religion in school. And can you really not think of any non religious thanksgiving we could do? Really?

No, that’s not what I want. I just want my children not to be expected to pray in school.

So do I. I just don’t want them to be expected to thank God for it.

Spot on! I can't see how people are failing to understand this!

My dd actually did come home wanting to become a Buddhist.

What did you mean by this, by the way?

That’s a pity. My children have hymn practice every Wednesday and I think they sing the main ones that most people have heard.

I agree, Mayflyoff.

I would love children to have the opportunity to familiarise themselves with some of the Christian hymns they are likely to encounter at weddings and funerals. The music is often the great composers and gloriously fine and huge for children to hear.
The saying of The Lord's Prayer is always said at funerals and I'm noticing, more commonly now, how people try to join in but can not. It was a great, simple prayer of unity once.

The crux of the matter is:

If I wanted my child to pray, I'd send them to church or mosque or synagogue or temple or whatever our religious place of worship was.

I sent my child to school because I wanted her to learn - including learning about all religions. If praying before lunch is such a great, educational, affirming experience, why is it a Christian prayer every day? Why not a Muslim prayer or a Jewish prayer or a Hindu prayer or a Sikh prayer, or an atheist "thanks for the food", or an agnostic "thanks, whoever you are?" or a Pagan blessing or any of the multitudes of religions we have in the UK?

Or, even better, why not just let the kids who want to pray before lunch pray privately to whichever deity they believe in and in whatever way suits them, and everyone else can crack on?

Well I’ve been to many weddings and they’re rarely religious these days. The one I went to many years in a church was interesting as I was the only one who joined in the singing and my other half nudged me to shut up. Lol. The couple had never set foot in a church before and haven’t since. So their wedding wasn’t because of their religious beliefs but because of the photo ops.

You will find the songs change as the years go by. My own church has a hum book stuck back in the dark ages and another slightly more modern one that’s still got really old songs. I’ve been in churches with the usual ‘mission praise’ song books. But I’ve also been in churches that sing music that sounds like secular pop and rock.

My God is so big is a typical kids Christian song that has actions. Kids enjoy singing it more than if they were to sing ‘How great thou art’ and the other older hymns that are brought into the very few weddings and funerals these days - mostly funerals of much older people.

They just have to not say the word "God" then.
"Thank You -silent pause - for this food"

For what we're about to receive, may the Lord make us truly thankful. Amen.

Said every lunch time in the village school I attended. I think it's bullshit to make kids say it, but I remained unwavering in my atheist views despite it.

I went to a Catholic school, as did my kids and we never prayed before lunch, but we did at the beginning and end of the school day.

I'm very surprised this is happening in a non religious school though.

Your child should be thanking all the people who ensure that they are fed every day. Farmers, lorry drivers, cooks and dinner ladies…. the list is endless. Why not have a short grace? What harm does it do?

Suggests that praying to a Christian God is the right thing to do, and that anything else is inherently bad and might get you in trouble.

An experience shared by myself and my daughter twenty years apart.

What happened to you?

My kids went to a C of E school as it was the only option. There were prayers at the end of every day before going home - and I always said they didn't have to join in if they didn't want to. The school were OK with this, I did check!

Once in year 4 a supply teacher told DS off for not joining in prayers - he was just sitting quietly but not saying the words. He was quite upset and told me about it, he was a good kid and rarely got told off so this was a shock for him.
I went to the head was assured it wouldn't happen again - no one would be forced to join in prayers, DS could sit there quietly reflecting if he wanted - which is what happened.

I did intervene one other time when DD was being taught bible stories as fact and she had disagreed with the RE teacher over it. She wasn't rude, just questioned whether it was true and was told yes. She said she thought it wasn't and was shut down.
I mentioned it at parents evening and sided with DD. The teacher escalated to the head and the head agreed that religious stories needed a caveat that 'Christians believe...'. rather than teaching them as fact. DD reported back that this was being done.

Basically I'm saying keep an eye on the school! You can opt out of things and they should support your decision, and they shouldn't be teaching any religion as fact to people that don't follow it.

Have we had sky fairies yet?

The digs haven't been that explicit yet. All we've had so far are semantics.

If you're not religious, then why do you participate in Christmas celebrations with gift giving? That is about the birth of Christ that you don't believe in if I've understood correctly. Sorry, if I dust get that right.

I had a Hindu colleague who gave her kids Christmas gifts and she said it's because she didn't want them left out of what everyone else did. She didn't want them to be the only kids who didn't get gifts from mum and dad at school.

They weren't the only Hindu kids at the school, but I suspect they all got gifts.

There's a big difference between celebrating a traditional, ancient seasonal festival albeit one under a Christian name (Easter is about the goddess Eostre) and teaching small children to send prayers to a deity.

I was constantly told off in school (non religious) for not joining in with the Lord's prayer or grace. Even though I just sat there quietly and waited for it to be over, the school were insistent that I had to join in.

My daughter went to a different school (also non religious) and was told that she should be joining in with prayers. She told them that she was Pagan (we regularly borrow books about different religions from the library and paganism appealed to her) and they told her off and contacted home to say they were concerned about her refusal to pray. This was after the new headteacher, who attends the local evangelical church, took over.

You are celebrating Christ's Mass. That's what the word Christmas has evolved from..........

You are absolutely joining in with a Christian activity.