To have not realised prayers in school was still a thing?

[UnreadyEthel]

DS1 (5) started school in September. One of the reasons I chose the school was that it had no obvious religious affiliation, while another good school in the area is a Christian school. We are secular.

This morning DS1 mentioned over breakfast that they say prayers at school before they eat lunch. I was absolutely gobsmacked. It’s not something I’ve ever come across in non-religious schools (and I have worked in plenty, mainly in cities). DH, who is from the rural area we now live in, was less surprised. ‘I had to do it all the way through school and it never harmed me’. I have sent a polite email to the headteacher asking for clarification of their policies.

DS2 (3) attends the very small nursery next to the school. I asked at pickup today whether they say prayers there and the nursery teacher said ‘yes, of course’. When I asked if DS2 could opt out please she said they’d never come across the situation before, and whether I wanted her to tell him off if he joined in out of habit! I wonder whether they haven’t come across another child who wanted to opt out before because other parents aren’t aware it’s going on? And because they obviously haven’t read the forms I filled in when he enrolled. I also asked what they would do if there was a child of a different religion, but she didn’t know.

AIBU to think this is an outdated practice? Or should I just accept it’s something that comes with raising children in a more rural area of the UK?

I haven't seen any digs at all on this thread, just people saying follow whatever religion you like, just don't force it on other people.

This. Indoctrinating 5 year olds isn’t on.

Thats fine, but don't then be a raging hypocrit and cherry pick from religious festivals..........

So don't buy your children Christmas presents - don't celebrate Christmas in any way - because you don't want to indoctrinate them do you.

I haven't discussed religious festivals at all; you have no idea what my faith is nor what religious festivals I do and don't celebrate.

Also, it's clearly not "fine", because schools continue to try and force Christianity on people. Who knows - maybe when Christian prayer and Christian doctrine is no longer pushed in schools, non-religious families will no longer "cherry pick" Christian religious festivals.

Following a few cultural norms in your country isn’t the same thing as “being a raging hypocrite”.

The Bröntes father was a vicar of course. Can't recall if it was the parents or grandparents who came over from Ireland after a 'mixed marriage ' . Prunty / O Prunty. Heathcliff and the Great Hunger by Terry Eagleton is a fascinating read.

I was introduced to the concept of praying and thanking god by my infant school - these were exactly the quick, light sing-song prayers people are describing, although they were supplemented by occasional assemblies led by a very religious teacher who told us bible stories which, I suppose, introduced me to the concept of god's wrath and willingness to, say, flood the Earth and kill everyone.

Anyway, I wasn't a particularly anxious or fretful child, but I spent a couple of years haunted by the belief that if I didn't pray my thanks for my family each night, some horrible disaster would befall my parents. I can't actually remember how I worked my way out of that, but I was much, much happier when I found the courage to stop praying.

I don't have kids so I don't directly have a horse in this race, but I think if parents want their children to pray, then their children should do it at home under their supervision. It's not something that should just be dumped on kids of any background at school.

This part of your post made me feel a bit sick ‘the we are not worthyness’
a huge part of Christianity is learning you absolutely are worthy. That God loves you unconditionally. This can be very healing and affirming to people who have had people tell them they are not

I have never seen any grovelling debasement personally - over many decades of attending various churches and helping in schools

Not saying there is none - but that sounds quite niche and cultish, definitely not the norm

Both mine went to the local CofE school and no damage done from saying grace for years. They don’t attend church, but have an understanding of those who do, and respect for those of all faiths and none

OP - I think you are overthinking this. Let them join in or sit quietly as they prefer. You have years ahead of them making all kinds of life decisions you may or may not agree with

I'm a bit sick of people suggesting that non-religious people shouldn't give gifts at Christmas or eat chocolate at Easter.

Most cultures/religions have some seasonal festivals. Often a midwinter one and a spring one, plus others. Many involve gifts or food. We happen to be off work due to public holidays at Easter and Christmas. Do we really need to sit around doing nothing? Just so that we have the right to object to indoctrination through taxpayer funded public services?

Why not? Christmas is far, far older than Christianity.

Absolutely this. That British people need to be reminded of their own culture and values is, quite frankly, sad and shameful.

“Sad and shameful” to want your children to learn about Christianity but not to pray? Could you say some more about that?

Christianity doesn't form part of my culture and values, and I don't need reminding about it.

In dc's school they educate the children about all different religious and beliefs, and make it about different choices from your own being okay. It seems that atheism/believing in science isnt included in this though. I also don't understand why some children of different faiths are able to be easily excluded from assembly. Other dcs have to sit through all religions. Is this due to assemblies being Christianity based? The school says their assemblies aren't religious, but then the children say they sing about God. This isn't a Catholic school.

I knew I’d forgotten something on the bingo card.

No not this. My point is that if you send your children to a CofE school, you should expect encouraged communication between your child and God. To be immersed in this belief/faith. Christianity is inherently interwoven with the traditional historic British values. If you don't want this for your child you should seek alternative educational settings. Also a non Christian person would not be able to celebrate Christmas or Easter in the same way that a Christian does.

And that's you.

Have you missed the posts from multiple people on this thread where we didn't attend / send our children to CofE / religious schools but were still expected to participate in this?

No I haven't. I apologise if I dived in too soon and made hasty assumptions! I'm off to clean bathroom so will leave you guys to it x

Well the most obvious is that if they are taught religion as fact that they then become religious.

By no means. No more than if you are fed vegetables for dinner every night as a child you will grow up to relish green beans.

I was raised Catholic, attended Catholic primary and secondary school and went to church at least once weekly (usually more during term time). God and Jesus were always presented to be as absolute, irrefutable facts. I recited all the prayers and willingly went to confession and communion as a child. But I have no memory of any time where I ever had faith. All the exposure to religion ever made me was a Catholic atheist. I don't feel damaged for it.

I am by no means unusual in being an atheist even among my religiously-raised peer group. Saying a daily prayer as part of a collective act at school as a child does not necessarily produce any belief in God and the tenets of a particular faith - particularly, I would have thought, if you grow up in a non-religious household.

There are plenty of areas in England where all of the primary schools are CofE and also areas where the concept of school choice is an illusion. These are often rural areas. Should these areas only be for Christians?

Having chosen not to live in one of these areas as we didn't want our DC immersed in faith, why were they at the whim of the head teacher?

The point is that prayer happens in very many non faith schools. I don’t agree with state funded state schools either, but I do accept that there will be prayer in them. It’s the other, non faith schools I’m talking about.

The history and development of Western Europe would have been quite different without Christianity so, like it or not, your culture and values might have been a little bit influenced by it.

You can choose to opt your child out of anything religious. Why anyone thinks it’s OK in a non faith school that it’s the non faith children who have to be made into a special case rather than the faith ones I cannot begin to imagine.