Stuck in middle of Adult DD’s

[userspacereturn]

I have 2 DD’s in their early 20’s who live at home (18month age gap). I’ve been a single mum to them since they were toddlers.

They saw their dad on weekends but they constantly bickered about that and fell over it in their teens with one refusing to visit (DD2) and the other (DD1) trying to make her change her mind.

They have a turbulent relationship and I always feel stuck in the middle. I am close to them both separately but they fight over my loyalty all the time and expect me to take sides. They also hide behind me from each other, passing messages instead of talking directly.

I try not to engage in this and encourage them to speak directly

In their teens they got jobs at the same place and made a group of friends. DD2 met her boyfriend, let’s call him A. In this big group of work friends DD2 and A fell out with some others including a boy called B. They allege boy B was a twat when he was drunk and DD2 was upset at all the gossip and teenage twatness, and the fall out when people took sides. DD2 and A left the workplace after this and still hold a grudge.

DD1 sort of took boy B’s side, stayed friends with him and eventually started dating him. DD2 is fuming that DD1 is dating this guy. She won’t allow him in our house as she says it makes her uncomfortable

Due to this I’ve barely met him and don’t know him. He seems ok, DD1 is fairly happy.

DD1 tries to sneak him around sometimes by asking me if he can come to the house. She’s an adult and I tell her to talk to her sister. When DD2 gets upset, DD1 just says ‘well mum said it was fine’ and blames me

DD2 is asking me to choose between her and DD1’s boyfriend. She wants me to ban him from our house. Obviously I choose DD2 in that black and white scenario but what about DD1, it’s her boyfriend so I’m really ring asked to choose between my own daughters.

if I tell DD1 her boyfriend is banned from the house then she is going to feel like I’ve chosen her sister over her. If I don’t tell DD1 he is banned, DD2 says like she feels I don’t respect her boundaries and she will move out and cut all contact

When I was a teenager working at the local supermarket a lot of the boys, and men, we're vile about me. My poor brother had to listen to them going on about my body and what they wanted to do to me. It was a horrible environment to work in. Like your DD2, I had done none of those things and not encouraged them But I got a 'reputation' and was treated badly by the women there too as I was 'easy', not that I'd had sex with any of them. Their words were enough. My brother hated them, we both left as they'd made our lives uncomfortable. It did lead to nasty games where they'd see whether they could grope me, but it started with comments. My brother made me promise not to go anywhere near any of them, which I wouldn't have anyway, and likewise i would have felt incredibly let down if he'd have wanted a friendship with any if them. It's not just an immature thing that boys do that should just be brushed off. It's horrible misogynistic bullying. I don't think I'd want to build any bridges with any of them all of these years later. But I'm glad my brother supported me.

If your DD1 has bullied her sister over the years anyway, I can see how this might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

I understand it’s AIBU so I can’t complain as I choose to post here but it’s very obvious in the difference from responses who has ever been a single parent, who has raised girls and who hasn’t

I am not going to keep responding about the dynamics as now it’s just getting weird with speculation. They are my daughters so I am not going to join in pilling on what awful awful people they are as I don’t think that. I’m not throwing them out. I’m not taking them to therapy and DD2 isn’t my favourite child and DD1 isn’t my lesser child.

I don’t even think DD2 is dominating the household, she is pretty easy going day to day apart from this ONE thing that is really important to her. She doesn’t or hasn’t asked me or DD1 for anything apart from this one thing - this boy not to come to our house as she feels uncomfortable about it. She’s not asking DD1 to break up with him

Plus I am trying to respect women’s boundaries and not forcing them into spaces with men they feel really comfortable so some of the comments here do make me feel uneasy as they are very much along the lines of young women need to just suck it up if a guy has been a creep to them and ignore their gut feelings to avoid him? Is that what we are teaching our daughters? I don’t feel that comfortable with that

‘sorry DD a guy you find creepy is coming into the house where you live, perhaps you can just pretend nothing happened or move out if you don’t like it cos he’s coming anyway to make DD1 happy’

DD1 doesn’t feel her boyfriend is creepy but if she found another man creepy, I wouldn’t force her to be around him.

If you really think this boy is so creepy he must be avoided, why on earth aren't you more worried about DD1?

@userspacereturn cannot really say whether or not she is being an idiot because we dont know what she is saying the boy did!

I would think not being welcome in DD2s home is a pretty reasonable consequence for boy B’s past gross behaviour toward her. If that’s inconvenient for DD1 maybe she shouldn’t have participated in the hurtful gossip about her sister back then, or date him now.

Ok look I have tried to explain pls read all my posts.

The comment he made was that DD had had sexual contact with him. He says it was a joke, she did not find this funny and instead of apologising then, he stirred up shit with their friends, a big falling out and DD2 found it embarrassing and uncomfortable

D2 HAS NO INTEREST IN FORGIVING HIM FOR THIS

AND I WILL NOT BE TAKING ANY ADVICE TO COERCE A WOMAN TO FORGIVE OR BE AROUND A MAN SHE DOESN'T LIKE SO PLS STOP ✋

This thread really opened my eyes that I had been trying to get my DD2 to change her mind and I absolutely will not do this now. If you still think it’s ok and trying to find excuses for this then.. you clearly have more problems than me (and I assume.. sons 😂)

I already described what happened in my previous post why do you want more details? Does it matter? Are you the police? Do you need more details to try to find ways my DD2 might be lying to show me my daughter is a bad person? How many women do actually make this stuff up for attention? Do you not think I know her better than you do?

did tell DD1 that I was very worried he was disrespectful to women and to be careful and I spoke to her a lot

which I have already explained in detail

DD1 explained he was nice to her, and it was a long time ago when he was young and silly and he wasn’t like that now. DD1 said she didn’t know which version was true as it was all very silly.

So I believe DD1 that he’s probably not being a creep to my older daughter, it didn’t happen to her so she doesn’t find him gross. But DD2 does not like him

I have explained to DD1 that I am sorry that it’s not nice to hear someone doesn’t like the man you like in the same way or that someone might not like him at all, but I wouldn’t force DD1 to be around someone she felt uncomfortable with so I won’t make DD2 so it either. She is upset that DD2 finds her boyfriend creepy, obviously who wants to hear this, but DD1 did know all this before she started dating him. I said I still want to spend time with DD1 and I will see him out of the house, no one is asking her to break up with him

It's a shame you haven't taken any of the advice you asked for on board.
You're going to destroy your relationship with DD1 beyond repair. All over a single comment from a drunk teenager.

You need to take control OP. Tell both DDs that YOU decide who visits your home and who doesn't and that your decision is that DD1s boyfriend can visit at set agreed times that DD2 knows about so she can choose to be out. DD1s BF is to behave in accordance with your house rules when he's there, or he won't be welcome again. Use the opportunity to tell both DDs that you're no longer prepared to live in a state of constant conflict and won't be discussing either with the other again or arbitrating their arguments. They keep the peace, keep you out of it or both need to look for somewhere else to live.

Absolutely this. Teenagers are idiots and DD2 needs to get a bloody grip, frankly.

I am not sure why you bothered to post in the first place @userspacereturn as you’ve made it clear throughout that you are going to side with your younger daughter .

Sounds like one DD is getting confused between her house and her home. The latter doesn’t belong to her, it belongs to you. Surely she’s making both you and your other DD uncomfortable in your own home by trying to dictate who can visit.

Actually, I think you need to remove your parenting hat in this scenario. It comes across as a typical sibling squabble for resources (you, your attention) and primacy, but that isn't the solution here. You love them equally, there will never be a first.

The one thing both your DDs have in common is that they're adult women. No woman should have in her home anyone, especially a man, she doesn't feel comfortable around. Your youngest doesn't have spurious grounds for not feeling comfortable around him and therefore vetoing his presence: there was an actual event that occurred, and it's up to her whether she lets go or not, moves on or not. Nobody gets to tell her how to feel about it when it comes to her own home. Maybe, when it comes to attending an event outside the home where she can choose to attend/not attend. But not at home where there's no avoiding him. It's plain old fashioned bullying: deal with him, because it's what I want.

Honestly, I'd be saying to your eldest "there are 8 billion people in the world. Of ALLLLL the men you could have chosen, you picked this one? Did you do it deliberately?".

I disagree, dd2 has been on the bullying end of both her father and sister. She had someone make up a lie that he'd slept with her causing her to loose friends and leave her job. On top of that, her older sister knowing what has happened has chosen to date this person. DD1 made a choice to date the asshole and she needs to accept consequences that come with that. DD2 hasn't been unreasonable at all, all she's asked is that he not be allowed in her home which is more than fair.
I'm proud of OP for defending her daughter and realising that just because they were teenagers it doesn't mean the consequences were small for DD2. She should not be made to forgive or apologise someone who treated her in that way.

You need to start being more assertive. Both boyfriends are welcome in the house. You will not tolerate being told by your own daughter who is and isn't allowed in the house. They don't have to like each other but they need to be civil towards each other. You love them both very much and equally but you will no longer tolerate being stuck in the middle of them. They are grown adults, it's time they started behaving like it. Anyone who objects, is welcome to find somewhere else to live.

I think it is a hard one. I think if DD2 genuinely feels uncomfortable with her sisters boyfriend (as opposed to just not liking him), then it is pretty unreasonable of her sister to want to force them together. If it really is that she is actually fine but now just doesn’t like him, that is a slightly different situation.

It sounds like this young man did do something that really upset DD2- I think making out you have had sexual contact with someone (especially if that someone is in a relationship) and then lying when they deny it, is more than being “a bit stupid”, it’s horrible. When that then leads to workplace tittle-tattle and gossiping and people falling out, it borders into a form of bullying. I can see why DD2 would like to avoid him if that is an accurate summary of what happened. I think it would also be understandable that she would not want to have someone who bullied her in the past in her home.

Even if her sister feels it is all “silly”, I can see why DD2 feels it is not. We don’t know the whole story, so perhaps it is less serious than bullying and DD1 has a point about moving on- or possibly DD1 is being blinkered by her feelings for her boyfriend and not being at all fair to DD2. It’s hard to say, really.

I think DD2 was probably quite upset that her sister was involved in the workplace gossiping and did not take her side. Then, when she decided to date this man, I imagine this was hurtful too (she can’t tell her sister who to date, but she can be upset that her sister would choose someone who was horrible to her). Perhaps she thinks dd1 was not supportive as she had feelings for him all along?

On the other hand, I can also see DD1 has ended up in a serious relationship with this man, and obviously has emotional attachment to him. She may well feel her sister over-reacted and should have moved on by now. Or she may feel that your dd2 is just trying to get back by throwing her weight around. It is, of course, entirely up to her who she is in a relationship with and I can understand why she would want to be able to have her boyfriend stay with her/come round. That said, she did enter a relationship with this man knowing the history between him and her sister. Maybe he has grown up and changed, and hopefully he treats her well. If so, I can see why she might be frustrated that her sister won’t even entertain some form of a truce, even if not a reconciliation.

How sincere was the apology from B to DD2? Did he acknowledge that he was in the wrong and seem genuinely remorseful, or was it more of a vague “sorry’ because he felt he had to? That would also change how I might view things.

Ultimately, if you think DD2’s reasons for not wanting him in her home are valid ( rather than petty point scoring/getting some form of revenge on her sister) then I think you have prioritise that.

Could you try family counselling?

DS A looks really toxic (why even date a guy who caused so much grief to her sister, if not to make a point?).
Daughter B needs therapy and getting away from this toxic crap.

I second the poster who said when they move out they might get on better - worked with my sisters! Though I appreciate with the COL it might be a way off yet.

tbh it seems a bit weird that DD1 decided to go out with this boy out of all the available guys in the world - not only is there the background with her sister but he sounds like a bit of an idiot, plus if he was 16/17 when dd2 was 18, and DD1 is 18 months older again than DD2, then surely he's like 3 years younger than her? I mean there's nothing wrong with that (although most young women find men the same age as them a bit immature, let alone ones much younger, and he doesn't exactly sound like the most adult, sensible person anyway) but all added together it's almost like she deliberately chose him to annoy her sister.