Gender ideology is toxic and creates divisions

[reprobatiusmumius]

I know I’m wading into a toxic debate here. But AIBU to find the gender ideology debate just so poisonous?

I have non binary identifying autistic teenager. I love and accept her but I refuse to get drawn into pronouns and calling her by a name she’s made up herself.

Why? It’s disrespectful to me, frankly. I conceived, birthed, nurtured and named her. I do not wish to capitulate to an ideology I disagree with, and so? My stance is, you do you with your friends. I am going to do me with you. That means I call her by her birth name and I’m not going to force grandma to say they / them which is grammatically incorrect. This is my stance.

It feels like a reasonable truce, having navigated years of chest flatteners, drawings with breast scars and other horrors, when all I want for her is for her to be happy in herself. In her current body. Surely, that’s not an unreasonable stance? And yet, I have been called out for bigotry, transphobia and told that if she walks out on me and never speaks to me again, that’s all I deserve. Not by her, I may add, although she tends to refuse my clothing suggestions- it’s fine- I give her money and she can wear what she wants (except clothes, like binders, that can physically harm her)

I’m sorry, but how have we got to a stage where parental norms, wishes and expectations are so decried, twisted and frowned upon that this debate has become “if you don’t agree then your child should disown you”? Seriously, I’ve got to the point where I’m so angry by the gremlins who have hog hold of her and convinced her something untrue that I feel like I want to go full Trump and refuse to engage in this debate at all, just ban it outright.

This is a debate where there is no allowance for nuance, questioning, watching and waiting and just accepting a rebellion (because that’s what I see this as!). I thank god they have banned surgical interventions on under 18s because the online trolls who push this agenda want to turn kids against loving and cautious parents who just WANT THEIR KIDS TO BE HAPPY as they are!

Sorry, I’m so angry- have just been outright banned by an Autistic with ADHD sub on Reddit for stating the same, and told my daughter should disown me. How did this become so toxic and how is any of this good for families?

The online pushers want more angry converts to their nasty little cult and it’s made me so angry. How dare they poison my sweet little girl and make out that I, her mother, am the problem, because I have an opinion that differs from hers. It’s hideous and I’ve had enough of the insidious compulsion to agree entirely or say nothing.

So much wrong with this post.

Man, woman, male, female aren’t identities. They are words that describe material reality.

Gender isn’t assigned at birth.

And I don’t believe that a trans identity is real any more than I think a cat identity is real or a Napoleon identity is real. Real inside someone’s head, perhaps. Not materially real.

Not every reality-denier is cultish, I agree. Those who seek to split children from their parents parents certainly are.

Of course you can define it - a woman is someone who identifies as an adult female, a man is someone who identifies as an adult male and a non binary individual identifies as neither an adult female nor an adult male

Nope, that tells me HOW you become a man or woman gender, not the defining characteristics that make up those genders. So how is man gender and woman gender defined? What are the defining characteristics?

Oof.

But if I use the word cis to describe myself a LOT of people will leap on me and tell me I'm wrong.

Language is in flux constantly. It isn't unchanging and monolithic.

Of course. But as language is a shared, collective endeavour it requires the consent of the majority to change, which is why language evolution is so slow.

What the gender cult has done to language isn’t evolution. It’s imposed against the will of the majority. It’s coerced speech. It’s not new or additional words, it’s making words mean their exact opposite, to distort and deceive.

Yes, I said I hadn’t done anything that I should be banned for and then they closed my account for three days. Sorry, but that’s an insidious assault on free speech.

@Lmnop22 If using certain pronouns and calling your child by a name that makes them feel comfortable is what makes them happy, then why can’t you do it whilst still making sure they’re exploring whether this is right, obtaining help from a professional in getting to the bottom of the conflicting feelings around transitioning and body dysmorphia?

But just because something makes your child happy today doesn't mean it's good for them in the long term.
I happen to believe -actually, that's too weak, I happen to KNOW - that thinking you are beyond biology and can be neither male nor female, or can change from one to another - is no more a recipe for long term happiness than eating sweets all day every day is a recipe for long term health or staying up all night gaming is a recipe for good school marks.

My children may prefer to eat sweets all day every day or stay up gaming. I am the adult however. It is not my job to be their friend.

Is that the only message you sent?

Freedom of speech is not about 3 day bans from Reddit, which is a privately owned site. If that were the case, people would be suing them, Mumsnet, Twitter, etc, daily.

I agree with you about everything except the name - it’s the same as her wanting a particular nickname used instead of her full name so I don’t think there’s any harm in that. I wouldn’t allow changing it legally or anything, just use it for now.
I hope your daughter comes to accept herself for who she is as she grows up.

I would be ok with my teens choosing a nickname from their own name, middle name etc. But Jolyon Maugham's daughter has called herself Grin. That's just ridiculous.

Why? There are children called things like Olive and Miles.

Grin is pretty inoffensive IMO.

"We all decide who we are ..." Really?

"There's a guy works down the chip shop swears he's Elvis."

You think he's Elvis? No you don't. Not really.

(People peddle such absurd nonsense about identity and such these days.)

Gender ideology is utterly toxic and destructive. It needs to be done away with.

If a parent called their child Grin they'd be laughed out of town.
Or are you ok with babies being called Spider Man because the preschooler named him?

Children aren't sensible enough to name themselves or other family members. Children aren't sensible enough to do a lot of things. Though maybe you disagree because you are a child and want to be allowed to name your new sibling?

Yes it was- I don’t really like what you are insinuating. And as I said before I was permanently banned from the community.

you seem to suggest I am somehow at fault here. Reddit mods are well known for being power hungry dictators with no regard for free expression.

You are suggesting I am a child because I disagree with you?

That's the thing though - Reddit mods are under no obligation to permit what you consider "free expression".

Every reddit sub I've been on has it's list of house "rules" down the right hand side. Fail to follow them, there are inevitably consequences, often permanent consequences.

Don't be so bloody ridiculous. They can't change their name by deed poll until they are an adult. I imagine the op will change the way they deal with this if their child is still doing this as an adult.

For now, this TEENAGER is experimenting with their identity as teenagers often do . Their parents job is not to unconditionally support and affirm every experiment . It is to give them a loving space to experiment without necessarily affirming everything they try and actively discouraging things that the parent thinks are harmful.
Not every experiment a teenager tries is good for them and parents are not obliged to say they are

No, I'm suggesting you are a child because adults don't think children should choose people's names.

If you look at the National Records list, you could easily make a cogent argument that there are plenty of adults who shouldn't be naming children either.

How old is this child?

Edit - The one called Grin. Not me.

I don't think you are wrong, but my child has cut out everyone - everyone - in his life. The only real disagreement we have ever had is around gender ideaology. We never even argued, I just explained my views. So be careful.

Youngsters really do see any questioning as akin to racism and as toxic. If I could take everything back and hold my tounge, I would.

If anyone wants to think they're Elvis, they can. Regardless of what you think of them. None of us get to dictate other people's self belief. It's called autonomy. We all have it.

A bit like wicked, cool, the dogs bollocks. Contronyms exist.

It's not coerced. It's just speech you disagree with. Dyke, queer, homo have been reclaimed in order to defuse the power. That was much more successful than fighting back against the terms.

He can think that, sure.

But aren't under any obligation to affirm he's right