Gender ideology is toxic and creates divisions

[reprobatiusmumius]

I know I’m wading into a toxic debate here. But AIBU to find the gender ideology debate just so poisonous?

I have non binary identifying autistic teenager. I love and accept her but I refuse to get drawn into pronouns and calling her by a name she’s made up herself.

Why? It’s disrespectful to me, frankly. I conceived, birthed, nurtured and named her. I do not wish to capitulate to an ideology I disagree with, and so? My stance is, you do you with your friends. I am going to do me with you. That means I call her by her birth name and I’m not going to force grandma to say they / them which is grammatically incorrect. This is my stance.

It feels like a reasonable truce, having navigated years of chest flatteners, drawings with breast scars and other horrors, when all I want for her is for her to be happy in herself. In her current body. Surely, that’s not an unreasonable stance? And yet, I have been called out for bigotry, transphobia and told that if she walks out on me and never speaks to me again, that’s all I deserve. Not by her, I may add, although she tends to refuse my clothing suggestions- it’s fine- I give her money and she can wear what she wants (except clothes, like binders, that can physically harm her)

I’m sorry, but how have we got to a stage where parental norms, wishes and expectations are so decried, twisted and frowned upon that this debate has become “if you don’t agree then your child should disown you”? Seriously, I’ve got to the point where I’m so angry by the gremlins who have hog hold of her and convinced her something untrue that I feel like I want to go full Trump and refuse to engage in this debate at all, just ban it outright.

This is a debate where there is no allowance for nuance, questioning, watching and waiting and just accepting a rebellion (because that’s what I see this as!). I thank god they have banned surgical interventions on under 18s because the online trolls who push this agenda want to turn kids against loving and cautious parents who just WANT THEIR KIDS TO BE HAPPY as they are!

Sorry, I’m so angry- have just been outright banned by an Autistic with ADHD sub on Reddit for stating the same, and told my daughter should disown me. How did this become so toxic and how is any of this good for families?

The online pushers want more angry converts to their nasty little cult and it’s made me so angry. How dare they poison my sweet little girl and make out that I, her mother, am the problem, because I have an opinion that differs from hers. It’s hideous and I’ve had enough of the insidious compulsion to agree entirely or say nothing.

I know of someone who’s friends adult child committed suicide. They had started to transition shortly before this. Those who expressed their condolences and grieved the boy they’d known for years (for ever, in some cases) were absolutely pounced upon and ripped apart for not using the new name and pronouns that has been on the scene for a matter of months. A grieving family, being stopped from mourning the person they knew.

These people are absolutely amoral and shameless.

I referred to the “people in power” as the OP made it clear she thinks they exist and are indoctrinating her child. My intention was to show her that, if they exist as she seems to believe they do, she’s playing into their hands.

Obviously, I don’t believe there are nebulous cult members hiding in the shadows making our children trans identify with the sole intention of ruining families because I’m a rational adult.

Which is deplatforming…

I mean there’s a whole conspiracy theory about non western powers undermining the power of the family through Tictok… I mean, if may sound far fetched but it’s not actually impossible to believe.

No. It's not. You can still post on the rest of Reddit.

I am a mother of an autistic tomboy girl and if she fell into this ideology and ended up undergoing surgery she’d blame me for not stopping her when she later regretted it. Thank goodness she saw this cult for what it is long ago.

I don't know how old your daughter is and I apologise as I haven't got time to read the whole thread but I agree this is a cult and her information is largely being accessed online. Is there anything you can do to get her away from her online sources. This is bound to mean giving her more of your time and family time with distraction alternatives. Also setting wifi options on timers.
I know it sounds a little bit like fresh air and exercise but you need to move her to neutral spaces to explore her feelings and allow her to voice her opinions. When my daughter was going through a rough time (self esteem rather than trans related), we did 10 mile hikes and coastal walks. You really get talking when on a long walk. Sometimes things got a bit fractious but you have to bite your tongue. Go home, cook a nice meal and watch a film. It got us over the line with her but it is about getting them away from their online influences which feed their insecurities and self doubt.

Sometimes it's the child who benefits from "breaking" a relationship with a parent. Certainly was the case with me and my mother.

She wasn't physically abusive, she wasn't entirely dysfunctional herself, and I'm sure if you asked her she'd insist she only ever had my "best interest" at heart, but she completely refused to respect me as a human being or an individual in any way, would not accept any of my choices, derided my views, absolutely insisted that I follow ridiculously constricting "rules" or face the consequences, mocked the clothes I wore, implied my friends were delinquent or criminal while making no attempt whatsoever to interact with them or find out who they really were in reality, she used to gripe constantly to my father about petty things I may have or may not have done that had got her back up (most of them completely imaginary), and thought nothing of making cruel and thoughtless observations and remarks that served no purpose whatsoever.

How can I respect anyone that plainly has no respect for me? The fact she birthed me, and then did the bare minimum to feed, clothe, and parent me doesn't in itself merit respect. These are things you accept that you commit to when you choose to have a child.

At 17 I realised that I could never repair the relationship she had utterly broken with her own ignorance, so I left home, never looked back, and lo and behold she continued with her total indifference for the rest of her life, never once made any effort whatsoever to contact me, so I left her to it because it just served to remind me she absolutely was the domineering tyrant I'd always thought she was when I was a teenager. When you are a teen you sometimes wonder if the person you perceive to be an arsehole is, in fact, an arsehole, or whether it's just that you lack world experience and insight, and this is the way of it for all people, and it's actually your perception that is skewed. Sometimes the person you perceive as an arsehole is actually an arsehole, and I realised I was entirely justified when I left home, finally had freedom of thought, action, and association, and realised that no, the vast majority of people are perfectly human, and my mother was indeed an irrational, controlling, horrible human being.

That’s all entirely irrelevant to this discussion, @XDownwiththissortofthingX, which is about the cult of gender seeks to split children from their parents, as cults often do.

Its not irrelevant when the context is that several posters have pointed out to OP that being steadfastly determined to be at loggerheads with your child tends not to end well for the parent.

And when you lose your child? Are you going to be feeling like you were right to disregard their views?

It’s irrelevant when discussing the cult of gender. Do some research. Those of us who have have seen time and again the tactics used.

But realise that your statement sounds like quite the threat, quite the way to ensure the parent does exactly what the child demands, even when going against the child’s best interests.

In the gender cult only parents who are under the thumb of the cult are welcome.

I feel very awkward around pronoun changes and I agree there are cultlike and toxic elements within this movement, but I also see that in the other 'side' who seem unwilling to recognise that however odd and difficult to define and pin down, there have always been people who have what we would now call a transgender identity. I think the fact that it's occurred through history indicates that there's something going on for these people where they just feel uncomfortable with their sex characteristics and happier if they can change aspects of that. IMO that is not a 'sex change' but it is a real thing, and it's not just about confused teens and adult male perverts - although there are a few of those around.

It's exploded among the young I think primarily due to social media and for many of them it's not going to be a permanent thing, and it may indicate other stuff going on. I'm glad we've got back to a place where young people are being protected from going down a path that may be harmful for them, before they have the maturity of understanding to make those choices. Sports and single sex spaces are important too and again I'm glad we've been able to push back on that, even if I think some of the GC types are actually quite bigoted. We do owe them that debt.

With the recent court cases, we've entered a new stage and it would be great if that could be one with maturity and understanding from everyone involved. We can dream, anyway.

If you've found a way that works with your child then that's great. But as children get older, obviously they're going to be making their own choices and you may not always agree with them. I don't think we own the rights on how our children express their identity. But equally it should be possible to find a respectful way to deal with each other, and hopefully you have. So I wish you all the best with everything.

I feel for you OP. Autistic children are so vulnerable to this ideology. Gender ideology is toxic, regressive, homophobic, I could go on….

You are doing the right thing by not going along with it and I hope that in the future, your daughter realises and accepts that she is a girl and that you were helping her.

Its not a bloody identity, because no one can define woman gender, man gender or non-binary gender. How can you identify as something you cant define? It's a cult.

But realise that your statement sounds like quite the threat, quite the way to ensure the parent does exactly what the child demands, even when going against the child’s best interests

If that's how you perceive it, then fine, nothing I can do about that. The point is that respect is earned, and you neither earn any or deserve any by mere dint of the fact you are a parent.

You earn respect by treating someone respectfully yourself, and if you fail to do that, it's not the other person's fault when it turns out they have zero respect for you.

You might think "well, I'm in the right, and I only have their best interests in mind", but a person with a wholly different viewpoint to you will not see it that way, and you wont get anywhere with grown adults by trying to pull rank on them and intimidating them into acquiescing to your world view, so it's no less ridiculous to expect to do the same with teens and have them simply accept it.

My cousin who's child transitioned worried about this. Her child since detransitioned, but her time taking testosterone has left her with multiple health problems (she has since stopped but the problems are ongoing).

So it's an absolute minefield for parents.

How awful. What sort of health problems?

Let's just say taking T can cause problems for females sexual health, skin, bone health.

Of course you can define it - a woman is someone who identifies as an adult female, a man is someone who identifies as an adult male and a non binary individual identifies as neither an adult female nor an adult male.

I didn’t realise we were presupposing that the starting point was that there is no such thing as genuine trans identity and everyone who identifies as a different gender than the one they were assigned at birth is a member or victim, knowingly or otherwise, of a cult.

Because that’s bonkers.

We may not understand, it might not be true in all case, I agree a degree of caution and exploration is certainly advisable and we may not be able to know why some people trans identify because it’s not in our direct frame of reference but it’s genuine!

Nope, I’ve now been deplatformed for theee days for “harassment”. Which is an outrageous claim.

I think both sides of this debate are extremely toxic. It's so sad. And to the OP while of course no one can or should force you to call your child by a different name, I do wonder if not using the chosen name (and the chosen pronouns) will cause a rift.

Were you messaging the mods about your ban?

Edit - Ah, yes, you were. The ban is for a direct message you sent to someone. Not your opinions on the thread.

I think you are doing the right thing with your daughter for now. This may be a phase and she will hopefully grow out of it, and you are right to keep her safe by not letting her bind or socially affirming her.

If she persists into adulthood you may have to re-think some things like her name, even if it pains you to do so.

I disagree with you about the sub-reddit though. Someone had to create that and someone has to give up their time to moderate it. Lots of subs have rules- I'm on a few which are really strict and regularly delete posts (but usually make the sub easier to use and less prone to derailing as a result). They made the effort, so they can make the rules. You've found somewhere else where you can make your points- here.

Only one side is toxic. And that’s not the OP’s side.