Page 2 | Gender ideology is toxic and creates divisions

reprobatiusmumius · 2025-05-21T10:59:51+00:00

I *know* I’m wading into a toxic debate here. But AIBU to find the gender ideology debate just so poisonous? I have non binary identifying autistic teenager. I love and accept her but I refuse to get drawn into pronouns and calling her by a name she’s made up herself. Why? It’s disrespectful to me, frankly. I conceived, birthed, nurtured and named her. I do not wish to capitulate to an ideology I disagree with, and so? My stance is, you do you with your friends. I am going to do me with you. That means I call her by her birth name and I’m not going to force grandma to say they / them which is grammatically incorrect. This is my stance. It feels like a reasonable truce, having navigated years of chest flatteners, drawings with breast scars and other horrors, when all I want for her is for her to be happy in herself. In her current body. Surely, that’s not an unreasonable stance? And yet, I have been called out for bigotry, transphobia and told that if she walks out on me and never speaks to me again, that’s all I deserve. Not by her, I may add, although she tends to refuse my clothing suggestions- it’s fine- I give her money and she can wear what she wants (except clothes, like binders, that can physically harm her) I’m sorry, but how have we got to a stage where parental norms, wishes and expectations are so decried, twisted and frowned upon that this debate has become “if you don’t agree then your child should disown you”? Seriously, I’ve got to the point where I’m so angry by the gremlins who have hog hold of her and convinced her something untrue that I feel like I want to go full Trump and refuse to engage in this debate at all, just ban it outright. This is a debate where there is no allowance for nuance, questioning, watching and waiting and just accepting a rebellion (because that’s what I see this as!). I thank god they have banned surgical interventions on under 18s because the online trolls who push this agenda want to turn kids against loving and cautious parents who just WANT THEIR KIDS TO BE HAPPY as they are! Sorry, I’m so angry- have just been outright banned by an Autistic with ADHD sub on Reddit for stating the same, and told my daughter should disown me. How did this become so toxic and how is any of this good for families? The online pushers want more angry converts to their nasty little cult and it’s made me so angry. How dare they poison my sweet little girl and make out that I, her mother, am the problem, because I have an opinion that differs from hers. It’s hideous and I’ve had enough of the insidious compulsion to agree entirely or say nothing.

Original poster

reprobatiusmumius · 21/05/2025 14:20

Lmnop22 · 21/05/2025 14:13

And you wish to achieve that by deplatforming the others who have an alternative view? Like your child who you refuse to hear? 🫠

Sounds like you actually just want an argument OP

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You can’t deplatform someone by banning assaults on free speech…I do appreciate the irony of my previous statement though. And no, I don’t want an argument. I want an end to this toxic circular debate to be honest.

OP posts:

Fancycheese · 21/05/2025 14:20

Dont worry. There are plenty of intolerant people on here who will tell you how wonderful and correct you are. You may reassess in a few years when you have no relationship with your adult child. Or perhaps not.

Original poster

reprobatiusmumius · 21/05/2025 14:21

Fancycheese · 21/05/2025 14:20

Dont worry. There are plenty of intolerant people on here who will tell you how wonderful and correct you are. You may reassess in a few years when you have no relationship with your adult child. Or perhaps not.

I’ll let you know shall I? Sounds like you are gunning for the latter. Appreciate your support 😒

OP posts:

tobee · 21/05/2025 14:24

Identity is being misused by activists (cultists). It's a load of baloney and given more weight than it should

tobee · 21/05/2025 14:24

Fancycheese · 21/05/2025 14:20

Dont worry. There are plenty of intolerant people on here who will tell you how wonderful and correct you are. You may reassess in a few years when you have no relationship with your adult child. Or perhaps not.

😆

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 21/05/2025 14:26

LeaderBee · 21/05/2025 14:17

I too disagree with the gender debate, but the "i am your mother, i birthed you so you will respect and obey me" stance isn't something i can get on board with.

My own mother did it with me and it did nothing but push me away.

Respect is earned, not inherited.

A million times this.

My mother was a "my way or the highway" type, and utterly unwilling to compromise or tolerate anything that didn't conform to her world view.

I chose the highway, best thing I ever did, absolutely no regrets.

Original poster

reprobatiusmumius · 21/05/2025 14:26

LeaderBee · 21/05/2025 14:17

I too disagree with the gender debate, but the "i am your mother, i birthed you so you will respect and obey me" stance isn't something i can get on board with.

My own mother did it with me and it did nothing but push me away.

Respect is earned, not inherited.

Yes, I agree with you on respect. But it works both ways. I think the point I was making is that to the ideology, these things appear to count for nothing and self actualisation seems far more important than honouring the people who love you and who have brought you up. I’m not talking about ownership. It’s about being considerate of one’s parents as well as one’s children. Or do parent’s wishes count for nothing these days?

OP posts:

Slightyamusedandsilly · 21/05/2025 14:29

Ddakji · 21/05/2025 13:38

Your NB teen doesn’t get to tell a single other persons, and certainly not other children, that they have to use the wrong pronouns.

Because pronouns don’t belong to them to chop and change the meaning of as they choose. They have clear definitions we all know.

That would be compelled speech.

They don’t get to foist their lack of reality onto anyone else.

So I do hope that you have made that very clear to them while you go along with their denial of reality.

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We all decide who we are though. And we do get to dictate who we are as individual. We don't get to tell others who they are.

A total lack of empathy with your own child is risking losing that child once they're of age.

Ddakji · 21/05/2025 14:32

Slightyamusedandsilly · 21/05/2025 14:29

We all decide who we are though. And we do get to dictate who we are as individual. We don't get to tell others who they are.

A total lack of empathy with your own child is risking losing that child once they're of age.

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You can indeed decide who you are. But you can’t compel anyone else to change the meaning of words and deny reality to keep you happy. That would be profoundly abusive.

Any child being told otherwise is being misled in a very damaging way. That is not support. Why anyone thinks outsourcing your sense of self and your wellbeing to the rest of society is a good idea I can’t think.

Beezbuzzing · 21/05/2025 14:36

What is non-binary? I just don’t get it? How can you not associate with being a boy or a girl. A boy has a penis, a girl has a vagina. There is no more to it than that.

it seems to me that non-binary is either boys who don’t like sports or girls who don’t like hair and make up. Why aren’t girls told they can like whatever they want and still be a girl. It seems so childish and regressive of society to say you must like X otherwise you are somehow not a woman. Ditch the stereotypes!

it also seems as though those who declare themselves non-binary are massive attention seekers. What are they missing in their lives that makes them crave attention? in this way???

LeaderBee · 21/05/2025 14:39

reprobatiusmumius · 21/05/2025 14:26

Yes, I agree with you on respect. But it works both ways. I think the point I was making is that to the ideology, these things appear to count for nothing and self actualisation seems far more important than honouring the people who love you and who have brought you up. I’m not talking about ownership. It’s about being considerate of one’s parents as well as one’s children. Or do parent’s wishes count for nothing these days?

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I am not sure you do.

You say that respect is earned and that it works both ways, but how are you earning the respect of your daughter by disrespecting her wishes, and then go on to ask why her self actualisation is more important than honoring you and tour family?

Her individualism is something fundamental to her being and you are asking her not to be herself while she is around you...there is no way that she will learn to respect you if you outright reject who she is (or is trying to work out who she is)

You talk about her respecting your wishes, but what is it that you are so afraid of happening if she does not??

Menier · 21/05/2025 14:41

anitarielleliphe · 21/05/2025 13:43

Anyone responding to your post with the hope of physical or mental harm, or a complete loss of a relationship with your daughter is wrong to say such things, but their sentiment comes from an inescapable truth.

And that truth is that you cannot make this statement --" . . . all I want for her is for her to be happy in herself" but then qualify it with "In her current body" because, love, that is the problem. She is not happy with herself in her current body.

Yes, teens are young, experimenting, trying to figure out things, some are easily manipulated or influenced, and often they change their minds. You could say that about a lot of adults, too.

But to go "full Trump" to deny her the right to figure things out, by trying things out, and respecting that will result in her feeling judged by you, and disrespected. And what will result from that? She will cease to tell you things. She will cease to rely on you when she is facing difficulties. She will handle problems alone or with those she trusts.

So, the harsh people, unempathetic to your side, still have a point because if you go "full Trump," and recognize that this descriptor means your adopting more than homophobia & transphobia . . . you are also taking on the mantle of racism, sexism, greed, apathy, anti-environment, anti-law, promotion of sexual assault as being acceptable, along with criminality as a pro . . . in the end, you will lose a relationship with your daughter. Any connection you have to her will be one in which she feels obligated. Don't you want your daughter to feel loved, accepted, and respected by you? Don't you want your daughter to feel like she trusts you?

If she does not feel these things, she will not give them in return, or at least not to the level that you hope and want.

Hyperbole much? None of those things are a given.

Skandar · 21/05/2025 14:42

Slightyamusedandsilly · 21/05/2025 14:29

We all decide who we are though. And we do get to dictate who we are as individual. We don't get to tell others who they are.

A total lack of empathy with your own child is risking losing that child once they're of age.

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Out of curiosity, if your child decided their identity was 'horse' would you also go along with it and agree they could be who/whatever they wanted to be? Or someone with a disability that they don't actually have? Or to want to be unhealthily thin? Or is it only gender that applies here?

TicklishReader · 21/05/2025 14:43

reprobatiusmumius · 21/05/2025 14:09

I’m more concerned about being deplatformed for having an alternative view. That’s what I want to ban- the assault on free speech.

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You have not been "deplatformed". You were banned from one Reddit sub.

Original poster

reprobatiusmumius · 21/05/2025 14:44

LeaderBee · 21/05/2025 14:39

I am not sure you do.

You say that respect is earned and that it works both ways, but how are you earning the respect of your daughter by disrespecting her wishes, and then go on to ask why her self actualisation is more important than honoring you and tour family?

Her individualism is something fundamental to her being and you are asking her not to be herself while she is around you...there is no way that she will learn to respect you if you outright reject who she is (or is trying to work out who she is)

You talk about her respecting your wishes, but what is it that you are so afraid of happening if she does not??

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I’m afraid she will cut off her breasts, and later regret it.

I’m afraid that if i don’t point blank agree with her, she will be seduced into leaving her family, or worse, self harming. Can’t see how either of these options is good for her…

OP posts:

SleepyDormouse59 · 21/05/2025 14:44

Ddakji · 21/05/2025 13:35

Agree with you 100%. It’s a cult that seeks to break the relationship between children and their parents.

Let’s all stop and think exactly who benefits from that breakage, shall we?

Quite

Original poster

reprobatiusmumius · 21/05/2025 14:47

Beezbuzzing · 21/05/2025 14:36

What is non-binary? I just don’t get it? How can you not associate with being a boy or a girl. A boy has a penis, a girl has a vagina. There is no more to it than that.

it seems to me that non-binary is either boys who don’t like sports or girls who don’t like hair and make up. Why aren’t girls told they can like whatever they want and still be a girl. It seems so childish and regressive of society to say you must like X otherwise you are somehow not a woman. Ditch the stereotypes!

it also seems as though those who declare themselves non-binary are massive attention seekers. What are they missing in their lives that makes them crave attention? in this way???

Hmmmm, it’s a craze…. Maybe it’s social accceptence (after all, autism and gender questioning goes hand in hand) so I guess it’s one way of being “accepted by a group” although I would argue this particular group has the groups needs at heart more than the individual’s. If you’re trying to suggest some refrigerator mother regressive nonsense, you won’t get very far. I may be autistic but I am not uncaring or unempathetic.

OP posts:

Smoronic · 21/05/2025 14:53

I'd be inclined to lean in. Buy a PROUD MUM OF A THEY PERSON t shirt. Book tickets to go and see non binary bands and speakers, pin badges on everything. Say you are now non binary and you are they-mum. She will be over it by July.

Imagine if your mum in the 90s had got fully on board with Marilyn manson and slipknot

Ddakji · 21/05/2025 15:00

Smoronic · 21/05/2025 14:53

I'd be inclined to lean in. Buy a PROUD MUM OF A THEY PERSON t shirt. Book tickets to go and see non binary bands and speakers, pin badges on everything. Say you are now non binary and you are they-mum. She will be over it by July.

Imagine if your mum in the 90s had got fully on board with Marilyn manson and slipknot

Not sure that would really work these days, with parents taking their kids to concerts etc. And parents have been known to follow their children down the non binary and trans path.

ItGhoul · 21/05/2025 15:02

I don't think the fact that you 'birthed, nurtured and named' your child means you get to decide who they are and what they want to be called. Your child is a human being, not a piece of property that you own, and I think the only one creating divisions here is you. They are a human being and you can't expect them to be the person you want them to be just because they happen to be the result of a shag you once had. This isn't about you.

You don't have to agree that your child does anything that could be physically harmful, and you don't have to believe they are the gender they apparently feel they are, but I think it's basic respect and kindness to call your teenage child (or anyone else you meet) whatever they want to be called.

Original poster

reprobatiusmumius · 21/05/2025 15:15

ItGhoul · 21/05/2025 15:02

I don't think the fact that you 'birthed, nurtured and named' your child means you get to decide who they are and what they want to be called. Your child is a human being, not a piece of property that you own, and I think the only one creating divisions here is you. They are a human being and you can't expect them to be the person you want them to be just because they happen to be the result of a shag you once had. This isn't about you.

You don't have to agree that your child does anything that could be physically harmful, and you don't have to believe they are the gender they apparently feel they are, but I think it's basic respect and kindness to call your teenage child (or anyone else you meet) whatever they want to be called.

I think this betrays the basic lack of respect for parents that the ideology encompasses. My daughter is not “a shag I once had”- she is the culmination of love, care, hopes, ambitions, hard graft, sleep deprivation and stitches. If she wants a nick name, that’s up to her, but that’s now what she’s called to me, sorry. Why shouldn’t I want to call her her name? And why do my feelings not matter? I appreciate it’s “not about me” but why don’t my feelings matter? She is as much about my identity as I am hers. Surely that’s a symbiotic relationship, not, kids get to dictate otherwise the relationship is void? What happened to parents setting the agenda? This has gone down the plug hole and the result is noone seems to know who they are anymore.

OP posts:

TheKeatingFive · 21/05/2025 15:20

anitarielleliphe · 21/05/2025 13:43

Anyone responding to your post with the hope of physical or mental harm, or a complete loss of a relationship with your daughter is wrong to say such things, but their sentiment comes from an inescapable truth.

And that truth is that you cannot make this statement --" . . . all I want for her is for her to be happy in herself" but then qualify it with "In her current body" because, love, that is the problem. She is not happy with herself in her current body.

Yes, teens are young, experimenting, trying to figure out things, some are easily manipulated or influenced, and often they change their minds. You could say that about a lot of adults, too.

But to go "full Trump" to deny her the right to figure things out, by trying things out, and respecting that will result in her feeling judged by you, and disrespected. And what will result from that? She will cease to tell you things. She will cease to rely on you when she is facing difficulties. She will handle problems alone or with those she trusts.

So, the harsh people, unempathetic to your side, still have a point because if you go "full Trump," and recognize that this descriptor means your adopting more than homophobia & transphobia . . . you are also taking on the mantle of racism, sexism, greed, apathy, anti-environment, anti-law, promotion of sexual assault as being acceptable, along with criminality as a pro . . . in the end, you will lose a relationship with your daughter. Any connection you have to her will be one in which she feels obligated. Don't you want your daughter to feel loved, accepted, and respected by you? Don't you want your daughter to feel like she trusts you?

If she does not feel these things, she will not give them in return, or at least not to the level that you hope and want.

She is not happy with herself in her current body.

There is no other body however, this is all she has.

That's the thing, she will never actually be able to change sex and it's not (to my mind) kind to let her believe she can or that this will solve her problems.

Speaking from bitter experience here

TheKeatingFive · 21/05/2025 15:26

reprobatiusmumius · 21/05/2025 15:15

I think this betrays the basic lack of respect for parents that the ideology encompasses. My daughter is not “a shag I once had”- she is the culmination of love, care, hopes, ambitions, hard graft, sleep deprivation and stitches. If she wants a nick name, that’s up to her, but that’s now what she’s called to me, sorry. Why shouldn’t I want to call her her name? And why do my feelings not matter? I appreciate it’s “not about me” but why don’t my feelings matter? She is as much about my identity as I am hers. Surely that’s a symbiotic relationship, not, kids get to dictate otherwise the relationship is void? What happened to parents setting the agenda? This has gone down the plug hole and the result is noone seems to know who they are anymore.

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I totally hear you here.

I once saw a truly awful thread on Reddit, where a poor woman was going through something similar. She mentioned giving birth to her daughter and had loads of people jump on her, telling her she gave birth to a son and she was a bigot for saying otherwise.

The attempted erasure of that woman's experience stayed with me. She knows she gave birth to a daughter and that's an integral experience for her as an individual too.

Denying reality for yourself is one thing. Trying to make everyone else do it too is quite another.

Locutus2000 · 21/05/2025 15:27

Nobody really biting, are they?

Another2Cats · 21/05/2025 15:34

Lmnop22 · 21/05/2025 13:42

It’s not an ideology it’s their identity.

If they wanted to change their name by deedpoll then they could so the name you gave them is not sacrosanct.

If you genuinely believe they’ve been indoctrinated into an ideology and that by accepting their identity you’re “drinking the kool-aid” have you considered that those in power are hoping to isolate people from their families and the best way to beat them is to show unwavering and unconditional support for your child no matter what?

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"If they wanted to change their name by deedpoll then they could "

This is only true for adults. Adults are free to do whatever they like; I'm not sure how old the OP's DD is.
.

"...have you considered that those in power are hoping to isolate people from their families"

I'm sorry but just who are these people "in power" who are looking to isolate people from their families?

So, I have to ask, are they in the room with us at the moment?