To absolutely not want closer ties to Europe

[Viviennemary]

What is the matter with Stammer toadying up to the EU. We voted Out. Has he forgotten. I switched the TV off when I heard the word contribution and free movement. Here we go again. Shafted and ripped off at every turn and following their dumb rules. It's groundhog day. I'm furious.

Ahem... I'm a boomer and so are most of my friends and colleagues. None of us voted to leave.

Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

This post reminds me of a rather boozy night in Austria a few years ago. Around the table were French, Germans, Dutch, Norwegians and us from the UK. The topic got round to the EU. After much discussion it was decided that the French make the rules but then ignore them: the Germans pick out the rules which are good for Germany and disregard the others but that the UK implements absolutely everything whether it is in our best interests or not. The Dutch were neutral and the Norwegians didn't understand why we needed an EU at all.

Much laughter and too much beer. A brilliant night that I will always remember.

Thats why i put a ? after Erasmus....!! i know its an aim, not yet agreed, youth mobility is on a much firmer footing.

Why do you think we are paying the EU to take part in discussions? we are not!

Oooohhh, you are on the wrong forum, I am afraid! People here bemoan the fact that their little ones won't be able to freeload on Erasmus programme, with the consensus being 'we should sacrifice our sovereign rights so little Timmy (aka Spoilt B**tard') can go on a year abroad to the Sorbonne. Aye.

In order to get the EU to agree to consider (no binding requirement to implement - they could refuse to allow an agreement if they want) the UK has had to give a binding and non-reversible agreement that EU fishermen have access to UK waters and fish until 2038.

I don't think they are allowed to catch more fish than they already do ? We export 70% of the fish caught, so being able to sell it to people who actually eat the stuff without too much additional expense and paperwork is a good thing ?
Also most of the fishing quota's for England and Wales aren't in the hands of smaller family fishing ventures are they ?

Yes, I know - my post only referred to goods. Also;

Any country can trade with the countries of the Single Market, on the terms established by the EU in its schedules at the WTO. Such ‘access’ to the Single Market is currently enjoyed by, for example, the US.

Countries that have concluded a free trade agreement (FTA) with the EU, such as the Republic of Korea, Mexico and Switzerland, also have ‘access’ to the Single Market, but on preferential terms.

By contrast, ‘membership’ of the Single Market involves all economic activity—whether or not engaged in cross border trade within the EU—being subject to the legislation established by the EU, and acceptance of the Four Freedoms.

But then you are not a sell-out. We are lukewarm traitors to our ancestors, who measure everything in money terms.

@Horserider5678 tend to split into two - those who like Farage and his ilk because they too are barstool bigoted bullshitters who hate non whites ( unless of course they are rich ones who can use their services or fund them - then they tolerate them) or it’s well off people who rather like the fact they can hide their assets or buy up cheap assets when the country struggles or act like Trump destabilising economies and then buy low , sell high etc - The party are a bunch of absolute weirdos who would be happy with a dog eat dog system like the USA but because they play on people’s prejudices, many are ok with that - the media love it because they sell clicks, they are great audience drivers/ clickbait and in a declining physical marketplace, they are where the money is - in a way I would love Farage to be in power - because you know what they say ‘sunlight is the best disinfectant ‘ and there would be nowhere for him to hide - no refusing to do interviews with certain people who are negative to him etc, etc - no policies on the back of a fag packet , he’s an old school corrupt cad - dressed up to sound serious and playing on the fact that it’s turbulent times - he caused Brexit but now of course rarely mentions it unless promoted like today , because he knows full well it isn’t a success and he was full of shit

Good for you. But I want young people to have the opportunity to travel and experience life abroad and not get stuck in a tiny island. I’m very happy about this (even though I don’t have high regards for the PM)

Look at yourself at the ridiculous language you use -escaping their clutches.

The problem is you cannot accept the logic of the EU’s position- (a) Brexit means Brexit (b) Other people have sovereignty too. (c) No cherry picking. Why would you presume that they ought to allow you destroy their organization, after you failed to implode it on the inside?

Regardless of anything you (or N. Farage ) think, any UK deal will be somewhere on the chart. Fine- have No Deal if you think it’s so great. But whining when other sovereign nations choose to pool their sovereignty and not do your bidding- pathetic. When will you get that they owe you zilch?

Your free to move then.

Thing is its not all about you and what you want, many are suffering horrifically since the shit show of brexit and whats best for fixing that comes above your 'feelings' (which you seemingly can't even explain as anything other than nonsense).

I’m okay with it. Labour were elected on that manifesto and won. You may think the referendum is forever; the truth is so long as we have a democracy the thoughts of your fellows may wax and wane @Viviennemary and you will have to accept it

Totally agree.

And invite Canada to join the EU too!

They have far more in common with Europe than they do with Trump’s USA!

In order to get the EU to agree to come to the table and open discussions on trade agreements the UK had to make a binding agreement to:

1. enter into a defence agreement with the EU
2. allow EU fishermen to have access to UK waters until 2038

The defence agreement is expected to require the UK to pay into a fund in order to secure access to any of the deals.

In some parts of the fishing agreement the EU has a quota of 80% of the fish stock in UK waters.

In effect both of those things represent a cost to the UK, either directly, or indirectly by limiting the amount of fish UK fishermen can land, and so by extension limiting the size of the UK fishing industry.

In return the EU agrees only to consider opening negotiations on other matters.

Can you detail the benefits of voting out that you have noticed ?

@housethatbuiltme or rather her choices are more restricted if without an EU passport - never mind as Brexitersare find of saying, ‘lots of other places’ all of course are a doddle to get into to live and work .

I am really happy living in the EU, under EU law, and with my freedom of movement, and that of my dd, fully intact and I am still clueless as to what some people in the UK think they actually gained from Brexit. Maybe someone can do a list? <<I know this was asked a million times>>

This.

How have Europe bullied us @Viviennemary ?

I’m genuinely curious.

Please could you explain and point out the EU laws were damaging for the UK?

Also, curious to know which of the Reform policies entices you to support and vote for them?

For some areas of fishing the EU has the rights to 80% of the fish stock in UK waters.

If UK fishermen sell 70% of their share to the EU this represents 14% of the total stock - the EU already catches 80% themselves. If the number of fish going to the EU remained the same but the UK had retained the fishing rights for UK fishermen, then rather than selling 14% of stock to the EU we would be selling 94%.

That would be a massive boost for both UK fishermen and the UK economy and would allow the UK fishing fleet to expand, in turn bringing a boost for local employment and economy. Areas which often have high unemployment and levels of deprivation.

As the current fishing quotas are now to remain in place until 2038 (at least) it is unlikely that there will be any expansion or investment into the UK fishing industry before then.

Vote Reform. Vote for the abyss

I’m not in the UK but I am in Europe. As are the UK. What do you mean by not wanting to be closer to Europe? I think you must be a bit confused.

And fishing is such a vital part of our economy isn’t it. 0.03% last time I checked. For heaven’s sake GET INFORMED don’t just blindly reiterate arguments thaf frankly were tired even in the 1970s.