To absolutely not want closer ties to Europe

[Viviennemary]

What is the matter with Stammer toadying up to the EU. We voted Out. Has he forgotten. I switched the TV off when I heard the word contribution and free movement. Here we go again. Shafted and ripped off at every turn and following their dumb rules. It's groundhog day. I'm furious.

Which EU laws do you not like? Which higher courts were an issue for you? The European Court of Human Rights?

We voted to come out of the EU. We came out of the EU. We are still out of the EU.

That's all we voted for. Everything else is a matter of negotiation. We could join the single market and customs union and still be out of the EU.

Many of those who voted out wanted a soft exit and close ties not a hard exit with few ties.

This often gets lost in the bullshit.

Sometimes when you reach a trade deal with a country or block of countries you have to agree that the stuff you send the meets their quality standards or that you treat your farm animals as well as they do. Its to try and make things far.

Thats what the government is doing. Or you may want your children or grandchildren to be able to work in another country so they can see that part of the World meet new people maybe even learn a language or fall in love. If you want your children to be able to do that they may want their children to be allowed to visit your country.

Crumbs! I know young people who voted to leave and am somewhat bemused at the thought that some remainers are fixated on an age divide.....

We had several years of a very pro-Brexit government in place and it still couldn't deliver the supposed benefits it promised. If Brexit didn't work under those conditions, it was never going to work.

No Brexit was voted for so we could do our own trade deals. This is a trade deal that was asked for during Brexit... More was actually promised than we have now got , we were promised we could still move and work abroad, have great trade deals etc we were lied to.
These have been the best we could hope for bringing billions back into the economy. Still not as good as the deals we had previously though

You can only br free if you havd strong, close friends, in this world with Russia, USA and China jostling for position. Brexit was madness - the Tory Brexiteers had 8 years to lead us to the sunny uplands of thd mythical Nirvana and failed to do so. They failed, because it was madness, is madness.

Oh dear - it looks like the last Labour government were not much good on this either;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10178020

Why is everyone getting so excited by this?

I voted Remain and I’m unimpressed with Starmer’s supposed ‘deal’.

Why?

Because we haven’t got a trade deal with the EU.

Today’s announcement has binding agreement for only 3 things:

1. The UK continues to allow EU fishermen access to UK waters until 2038
2. The UK enters a Security & Defence Partnership with the EU.
3. The EU & UK have regular meetings

Youth movement, EU fast airport gates, removal of trade barriers - all the things we want and have been mentioned in the media today have not yet been agreed.

The only thing we have a binding agreement on with the EU regarding these things is to have more meetings to see if we can come to a final agreement. FFS! 🤦‍♀️

Did 17.4 million people vote for Starmer's labour? I think not. The number was nearer 9,708,716.
But we have the answer, don't we? Those that lost don't even think the Brexit vote was a democratic vote. So where do we go from here? Some people don't believe we had a democratic mandate to leave the EU, I don't think 33% of the vote, and 20% of the electorate is enough for Starmer to reverse it. He will, of course, do everything in his power to do so, which will please the remainers, no doubt.
Fortunately, Starmer only has four more years to inflict damage on this country and then we'll see what happens.

it represents a huge reset in relations compared to the last 9 years. Yes there’s more talking to do but that’s the point. We are now talking properly with them and open to new deals.

Not yet an MEP - this case is probably one of the reasons he became one;

In 1988, the Eurosceptic Conservative government introduced the Merchant Shipping Act to negate the impact of the EU’s common fisheries policy. It restricted access to British waters and prevented foreign-owned vessels from re-registering as British ships in order to sell their catches in Europe, but count them against the British fishing quota (a practice known as “quota-hopping”).

However, the European Court of Justice ruled that this legislation broke European law...

Better Europe than the US. I am pro EU but not the way it was before. At the moment the best course is independence but friendly relayions, esp w Putin's sabre rattling always in the offing.

Why are you talking about 17.4 million people ?

We’re still out of the EU. Don’t panic, you still have your precious Brexit. It doesn’t stop us having whatever kinds of deal we want with the EU as long as we’re not members.

Even if we “do a Switzerland” and join the single market and ideally Schengen - we’d still be compliant with Brexit which simply meant we are not members of the EU - no more, no less.

Under what conditions - Covid and Ukraine/energy crisis?

"I just object to being governed by EU laws and the fact they could overturn decisions made in our courts. I don't want that."

This is absolutely not what the talks are about. Also this is not how being part of Europe works. French/Germany/Spain have different laws. Please educate yourself.

Ffs what a stupid thread title.

This is why I’m a firm believer in mandatory IQ tests before people are allowed to vote.

[double post]

Well, you still are living under the EU laws, we've kept almost all of them which is good, as we voted for and wrote most of them! And the European courts can still override our courts, that's nothing to do with the EU.

@Lockdownsceptic where as of course the Tory’s did such a splendid job giving us such a vibrant well run ordered country with everyone and his mother wanting to invest here - Brexit of course has been a raging success , all that red tape removed ( quadrupled in our business) - any illegal immigration simply vanished and the cost of living plummeted -even my 85 year old FIL who voted for it despite knowing it would damage our business personally feels he was sold a total Pack of bullshit and that any benefits are hugely outweighed by the disadvantages - and admits he was totally out of touch with how business operates these days

The British people voted democratically to leave the EU.

We left the EU.

The British people voted for a Conservative government, who negotiated our first arrangements with the EU.

Then the British people voted for a Labour government, who are negotiating our updated arrangements with the EU.

Whoever we vote for next will be able to negotiate further arrangements with the EU.

This is what UK sovereignty means.

It's not only UK sovereignty when the UK government is one you like.

But that’s what some of the main Brexiteers objected to at the end of the day, wasn’t it?

They objected to “fair” deals - why else say “we hold all the cards” and “we can have our cake and eat it”? Who else goes on about “holding all the cards”? Trump - so, yeah, it was just the same bully boy tactics as his tariffs. The aim isn’t to get a fair trade deal - it’s to shaft whoever they’re dealing with so we “win” and they “lose” by getting the worst end of the stick but have to put up with it.

Everything we want with no compromise for us. Compromise everything for them.

I daresay a lot of the British public knew that and would cheer it on - not exactly in the supposed British spirit of “fair play”, mind.