Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Woman declared legally dead is being kept alive due to state’s abortion laws

236 replies

Youstolemygoddamnhouse · 17/05/2025 18:02

Anyone see this story?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/15/pregnant-georgia-woman-brain-dead-abortion-law

TLTR
US women is being kept alive on life support due to abortion laws. Woman was 9 weeks pregnant when she became brain dead. Family have no say in the matter and do not want this. The foetus if it survives may have life long health conditions and suffer from brain damage. Family are also having to pay for medical fees occurred and also for future birth fees.

I am being unreasonable to say WTF. Where is the outcry about this? This actually happened in an episode of The Handmaid’s tale.

YABU - this is the law, law needs to be upheld even after death
YANBU - WTF. Women are not safe even after death.

Pregnant US woman declared brain dead is being kept alive under state abortion law

Doctors are keeping Adriana Smith on life support months after medical emergency until baby is ready, family says

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/15/pregnant-georgia-woman-brain-dead-abortion-law

OP posts:
Lovelysummerdays · 18/05/2025 07:37

YellowOrangePink · 18/05/2025 07:25

If you're dead, what does it matter?

I assume it matters to her family. Do you not think it’s hard for her 7 to visit her in hospital to see his mother knowing there is no hope for her.

CuriousKangaroo · 18/05/2025 07:42

Lamelie · 17/05/2025 18:17

Give over. I’m allowed an opinion.

Of course you’re allowed an opinion. But this is the consequence of your opinion. If you are unhappy with the consequences, then it is time to examine your opinion and whether you still hold it. There’s no shame in that.

LeavesOnTrees · 18/05/2025 07:49

If you're dead, what does it matter?

Of course it matters. Her family can't organise a funeral to say goodbye and grieve her death. Instead they have to stand by whilst this horrendous medical experiment is carried out.

A lot of people express wishes of what they would like to happen after their death; organ donation, burial, cremation, scattering ashes in the mountains, donantion to medical science, whatever, it's about choice and respect for the one who has passed on.

I would argue (if you're giving foetuses rights), that an unborn baby has the right to be gestated in an alive mother. I'd say it's pretty fundamental.

LeavesOnTrees · 18/05/2025 07:55

Also call me a cynic, but I think one of the main reasons that rape and incest are exceptions in abortion laws is so men don't have to raise a child that is not theirs (if their wife or partner is raped by another man) and incest so the man's crimes are not so obvious.

AthWat · 18/05/2025 09:07

Riaanna · 18/05/2025 06:52

Any and all watering down of sex based protections.

Edited

The question was which countries has been governed by the left and enacted the laws that you don't like. I mean it's clearly not the UK.

Riaanna · 18/05/2025 09:10

AthWat · 18/05/2025 09:07

The question was which countries has been governed by the left and enacted the laws that you don't like. I mean it's clearly not the UK.

There’s been no change in laws in the Uk around sex? Ok.

AthWat · 18/05/2025 09:12

Riaanna · 18/05/2025 09:10

There’s been no change in laws in the Uk around sex? Ok.

The UK has been governed by a right wing party from 2010 to last year. So how have "the left" done anything in the UK?
Which laws are you talking about and who brought them in and when?

Communitywebbing · 18/05/2025 09:14

Horrifying. There seems to be some confusion between abortion and accepting that the foetus of a woman who dies so early in the pregnancy is not viable.

JHound · 18/05/2025 11:18

AthWat · 18/05/2025 09:12

The UK has been governed by a right wing party from 2010 to last year. So how have "the left" done anything in the UK?
Which laws are you talking about and who brought them in and when?

Edited

Have you not understood how it works yet?

The Left passes awful laws: The Left are accountable.

The Right passes awful laws: The Left are accountable.

No matter the issue, no matter who is in power: “It’s The Left’s Fault!”

LetsGoFlyAKiteee · 18/05/2025 11:21

There's a woman on Facebook whose page stumbled across before not sure how but her whole thing is about how brain dead is a lie and has many followers saying the same thing. Basically their view on this is the nan is trying to murder both her daughter and her granddaughter and also there's a few posts of the mother is going to wake up so why do they want to kill her...

Such a sad situation and especially as the choice of the family doesn't matter!! The case in Ireland sounded so horrific what was being done to try and keep her body going before sense came.

Missey85 · 18/05/2025 12:10

LeavesOnTrees · 18/05/2025 07:55

Also call me a cynic, but I think one of the main reasons that rape and incest are exceptions in abortion laws is so men don't have to raise a child that is not theirs (if their wife or partner is raped by another man) and incest so the man's crimes are not so obvious.

I hate to break it to you but many states in America incest and rape doesn't matter they force them to carry the babies too 😡

MistressoftheDarkSide · 18/05/2025 12:24

I've been following this case a bit and I'm dumbfounded at the lack of logic and compassion that is seeping into legislation which is then able to be used in what seems the epitome of sadism.

The religious types who drive the "right to life" movements are as consistent as frigging fog. They'll hide behind God's will and wishes in a case like this, neatly overlooking that this poor woman had a life ending medical event that could be seen as "God's will" for her and her baby, but they're actually intent on over-riding that. This isn't what I "believe" as I'm not religious at all, but I've had enough "interesting" debates with the devout to know that their ideology is often devoid of any aspect of critical thinking.

The way the world is going makes me glad I'm oldish to be honest. Every heartbreaking story like this, every bit of extended batshittery that I see reported makes me think, well, hopefully not long now, because voices of reason are unwelcome and drowned out by people with enough money to promote any nuts agenda that generates digital revenue, actual human beings suffering as a result be damned it seems.

I've sat at my late DPs bedside when he was brain dead, for three days, after life support was withdrawn. Still I had friends aghast that I agreed with what was a medical decision. He wasn't in there, and his body was failing in front of our eyes. There was going to be no miracle awakening, and if there had been, he would have been quadriplegic and severely brain damaged, which he would not have wanted. So, like many others to whom I send solidarity, I know what I'm talking about in terms of the agony if this kind of scenario.

There being a "maybe" baby, which might not survive, and may be significantly disabled if it does, plus the US financial model of medical care is beyond horrific, and I am appalled for the family, and for the poor woman herself, reduced as others gave said, to the status of incubator.

And something else that occurs to me - if you rock up in a life threatening condition as a pregnant woman with awareness, how the hell does the conversation go if the law prohibits your treatment in favour of the baby at all costs? I'm aware that women can choose their baby over all else, sacrificing themselves if they choose, and fair play to them. But if said woman has other children, or just wants to live, she's effectively being told she is less important than the foetus, and will just have to suck it up in these scenarios. It's inhumane and barbaric on every level.

FedupofArsenalgame · 18/05/2025 12:41

Lovelysummerdays · 18/05/2025 07:37

I assume it matters to her family. Do you not think it’s hard for her 7 to visit her in hospital to see his mother knowing there is no hope for her.

Why would he be taken there? She's dead

Whatsgoingonherethenagain · 18/05/2025 13:20

FedupofArsenalgame · 18/05/2025 12:41

Why would he be taken there? She's dead

Because what do you tell a child?

if she were dead you’d have a funeral and be able to say goodbye. Visit the grave.

she’s in limbo. That child’s life cannot can’t say goodbye. He won’t understand fully how she can be dead but still breathing. He won’t understand the legal battle around why she isn’t at rest.

so family have told him she’s in hospital. Why would he not visit his mum in hospital?

they’ve chosen to tell him she’s sleeping. I can’t judge them for that. Even if you explain the concept of brain death how do you explain her being kept on LS for so long without giving that child hope?

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 18/05/2025 13:33

RhannionKPSS · 17/05/2025 23:11

This is a tragic story, that poor family.

I think the fetus is most certainly not viable and the pregnancy will cease very soon, then the poor woman will be allowed to die with dignity.
Pregnancy is a precarious state in the best of circumstances and situations, and this type of situation makes me more sure of my pro choice stance, and because of personal experience.
Sepsis nearly killed me when my twin boy & girl both died in my womb , but I didn’t miscarry and had to have a D & C which saved my life.

I hope this woman passes in peace and dignity

RhannionKPSS

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 18/05/2025 13:39

RhannionKPSS
Sepsis nearly killed me when my twin boy & girl both died in my womb , but I didn’t miscarry and had to have a D & C which saved my life.

You have my every sympathy.

I was similarly carrying a dead foetus (only one, but much wanted) but had not miscarried, and was called into a women's health clinic to have a D&C. Unfortunately my appointment was on a day when activist anti-abortion people had elected to demonstrate outside that clinic and I had to run the gauntlet of men spitting on me and calling me "murderer" in order to get to the clinic's door. I lost patience (I was in something of a poor state of mind even before that crap) and chose a woman abut my age, one of the baying mob, and told her, loudly, exactly what was happening inside my body.

She was sick, the rest shut up and allowed me through.

Bad enough to be carrying the death of some cherished hopes without idiots making assumptions about you.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 18/05/2025 13:55

Sorry about the strange hiccup there; I swear I didn't try to send anything for the first post.

nomas · 18/05/2025 14:22

BIossomtoes · 17/05/2025 19:12

They get sued I’m guessing. The US is absolutely barbaric these days. Land of the free my arse.

Do you know why the family are liable? As she was a 30 yo woman, surely her family were no longer financially responsible for her?

Theunamedcat · 18/05/2025 19:18

Youstolemygoddamnhouse · 17/05/2025 21:21

Family probably not have to pay the bills for an adult, the daughter can become a non-payer, no problem. Hospitals get this all the time. … guessing she had no insurance? No Medicare?

You’re speculating here.Not facts whatsoever. The fact the woman was a nurse and has a five year old son I highly doubt she doesn’t have insurance. Also there’s nothing wrong if the family feel they can’t support the child.

She worked at the hospital I assume her job came with insurance

Whatsgoingonherethenagain · 18/05/2025 19:24

Theunamedcat · 18/05/2025 19:18

She worked at the hospital I assume her job came with insurance

Wouldn’t surprise me if the insurance refused to pay though, on the basis that this “treatment” is unnecessary and futile.

they’ve probably refused to cover keeping a dead person on extended life support. Don’t blame them tbh.

AndorTheRelentless · 18/05/2025 19:37

Cantsleepdontsleep · 18/05/2025 06:51

good lord! You have no idea what you are talking about.

CT scans use X rays. You get a CT scan if clinically indicated and potential benefit out weighs risk. An ‘iron curtain’ (you mean a lead gown, although they are not made of lead any more), would not be helpful and could actually increase dose to the foetus.

Sounds like in your case, you didn’t initially
meet the threshold for a CT. When you represented with ‘stroke like symptoms’ you did. Also sounds like you hadn’t actually had a stroke or anything that was detected by the CT so your clinicians were entirely justified in their initial assessment and decision.

An ‘iron curtain’ (you mean a lead gown, although they are not made of lead any more), would not be helpful and could actually increase dose to the foetus.

How does that work? I'm not medical (obviously) genuine question

AndorTheRelentless · 18/05/2025 19:41

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 18/05/2025 13:39

RhannionKPSS
Sepsis nearly killed me when my twin boy & girl both died in my womb , but I didn’t miscarry and had to have a D & C which saved my life.

You have my every sympathy.

I was similarly carrying a dead foetus (only one, but much wanted) but had not miscarried, and was called into a women's health clinic to have a D&C. Unfortunately my appointment was on a day when activist anti-abortion people had elected to demonstrate outside that clinic and I had to run the gauntlet of men spitting on me and calling me "murderer" in order to get to the clinic's door. I lost patience (I was in something of a poor state of mind even before that crap) and chose a woman abut my age, one of the baying mob, and told her, loudly, exactly what was happening inside my body.

She was sick, the rest shut up and allowed me through.

Bad enough to be carrying the death of some cherished hopes without idiots making assumptions about you.

So very sorry you had to go through this. I lost a child, but didn't have to deal with utter cunts.

Lovelysummerdays · 18/05/2025 19:57

Insurance doesn’t really cover everything though. You can have a mix of deductibles ( excess) Co insurance (you pay a fixed proportion of costs of treatment) and Co pays ( you pay a fixed amount towards treatment).

Policies also have limits. I looked up Medicare which is a government scheme as an example and for long term hospital stays the co insurance part increases over time so initially 0 after the deductible then over 60 days you pay over 400 dollars a night, 90 days plus you pay over 800 dollars a night and then over 150 days you are responsible for all the costs.

I wonder if other insurance companies are similar and now she has gone over the 60 days she’s being billed for a proportion of her care. It’ll be a fraction of the cost but on Medicare rates that adds up 12-13 thousand this month and then double that next month and for as long as she lives.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 18/05/2025 19:59

AndorTheRelentless · 18/05/2025 19:41

So very sorry you had to go through this. I lost a child, but didn't have to deal with utter cunts.

It was a long time ago, and my eldest child (of three) is now nearly 44, so it doesn't hurt too much any longer. That was one of the early-in-the-pregnancy failures; the nasty one was the baby who died when she was six months in utero and had to be carefully removed.

That it was a long time ago doesn't stop me having strong feelings about people who ignorantly take up a "100% opposed to abortion" stance in the face of reason, though.

Swipe left for the next trending thread