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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Woman declared legally dead is being kept alive due to state’s abortion laws

236 replies

Youstolemygoddamnhouse · 17/05/2025 18:02

Anyone see this story?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/15/pregnant-georgia-woman-brain-dead-abortion-law

TLTR
US women is being kept alive on life support due to abortion laws. Woman was 9 weeks pregnant when she became brain dead. Family have no say in the matter and do not want this. The foetus if it survives may have life long health conditions and suffer from brain damage. Family are also having to pay for medical fees occurred and also for future birth fees.

I am being unreasonable to say WTF. Where is the outcry about this? This actually happened in an episode of The Handmaid’s tale.

YABU - this is the law, law needs to be upheld even after death
YANBU - WTF. Women are not safe even after death.

Pregnant US woman declared brain dead is being kept alive under state abortion law

Doctors are keeping Adriana Smith on life support months after medical emergency until baby is ready, family says

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/15/pregnant-georgia-woman-brain-dead-abortion-law

OP posts:
iwentjasonwaterfalls · 17/05/2025 18:32

Lamelie · 17/05/2025 18:30

Actually I’m not sure I’ve ever told anyone in real life that abortion saddens me and I only mentioned it here in the context of finding this utterly horrific. I’m certainly not marching or petitioning.

It doesn't matter if you've told people in real life or not. Anti-abortion views are anti-women, those views are what lead to these situations.

Fangisnotacoward · 17/05/2025 18:32

It's a situation beyond horrible.

Aside from the morals of the situation, as she's in the US, how much are her family being charged each day to keep this woman alive as an incubator. If she has insurance, I highly doubt the insurance company are willing to pay up for this.

The foetus apparently has water on the brain and is likely to be born disabled to some degree. Who will be expected to care for this child? The woman's family?

It must be absolute torture for them.

JHound · 17/05/2025 18:33

blubberyboo · 17/05/2025 18:31

Why do people like you not see that the left are entirely to blame for this in the west?

Women had abortion rights and autonomy over their wombs.

Then the left decided that women couldn't have autonomy over the rest of their bodies when they decide on matters of privacy.

The left should have held the line on sex based protections.

They failed and the right got a way in.

See ^^.

Weak, inept and refuse to take accountability for the laws your people are drafting. This is nothing to do with the left.

blubberyboo · 17/05/2025 18:34

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 17/05/2025 18:29

It's part of the reason why I get so angry when I see women on here celebrating or voting for people who are anti abortion 'because they know what a woman is'.

Mumsnet is a UK based site. Very few posters on here vote in US elections, and there is no significant anti abortion movement in the UK.

For what it's worth, I think "knowing what a woman is" and believing women should have sex based rights are very closely connected. The US is a country where mainstream "feminism" believes that it is not necessary to even have a word for female people and that anyone who thinks we do need one (and that male people cannot be women) is transphobic. It's also a country where feminism has failed; where women already had fewer rights than anywhere else in the developed world and things are going backwards.

Compare and contrast with the UK, where women have comprehensive rights not to be discriminated against on grounds of their sex, the right to a year's maternity leave (even if it isn't all paid), free maternity care and some of the most liberal abortion laws in the world. We also have a strong core of left wing feminists who are saying "hell no" to all the gender ideology bullshit.

These things are not unconnected.

Neither is the fact that Ireland has wrestled itself free from the Catholic Church and immediately and enthusiastically embraced gender ideology. They've just swapped one patriarchal religion for another.

This!

blubberyboo · 17/05/2025 18:35

JHound · 17/05/2025 18:33

See ^^.

Weak, inept and refuse to take accountability for the laws your people are drafting. This is nothing to do with the left.

Edited

Who are "my people"?

Explain?

JHound · 17/05/2025 18:37

blubberyboo · 17/05/2025 18:35

Who are "my people"?

Explain?

The actual legislators of these laws. The people you are kow-towing to and coddling in your refusal to hold them to account.

JHound · 17/05/2025 18:38

Fangisnotacoward · 17/05/2025 18:32

It's a situation beyond horrible.

Aside from the morals of the situation, as she's in the US, how much are her family being charged each day to keep this woman alive as an incubator. If she has insurance, I highly doubt the insurance company are willing to pay up for this.

The foetus apparently has water on the brain and is likely to be born disabled to some degree. Who will be expected to care for this child? The woman's family?

It must be absolute torture for them.

This is the bit I don’t get. How can they force the family to be financially liable.

Hadalifeonce · 17/05/2025 18:38

JHound · 17/05/2025 18:25

What happens if the family refuses to pay the medical costs?

That's what I was wondering.

blubberyboo · 17/05/2025 18:38

JHound · 17/05/2025 18:37

The actual legislators of these laws. The people you are kow-towing to and coddling in your refusal to hold them to account.

I'm not kow-towing to anyone dear!

I'm pointing out that where the left has failed women and allowed to fester then male supremacy ideologies creep in. This will always happen if left unchecked.

The left did that

You need to hold the left to account

Deebee90 · 17/05/2025 18:42

Hadalifeonce · 17/05/2025 18:38

That's what I was wondering.

I hope they don’t . I wouldn’t pay those monsters a fine after what they’ve done.

JHound · 17/05/2025 18:43

I don’t see how they feel turning off life support constitutes an abortion.

What on earth is their definition of abortion that this applies:

Smith’s family says Emory doctors have told them they are not allowed to stop or remove the devices that are keeping her breathing because state law bans abortion after cardiac activity can be detected in the fetus – generally around six weeks into pregnancy.

diabeticdd · 17/05/2025 18:43

Can someone medical explain why the baby could have brain/other health issues due to this ? As at 9 weeks a foetus is relatively well protected . Also I’m assuming they can do scans so surely there’s an opportunity soon to ascertain the viability of the foetus ?

BadgeronaMoped · 17/05/2025 18:44

I agree with JHound, this situation surely doesn't count as an abortion? The woman has died, she hasn't decided to abort her baby! Therefore, she and her baby die together.

Feel so sorry for her and her family.

Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2025 18:45

I'm just re-watching the fictional series The Handmaid's Tale and this is something that happens in the series.

JHound · 17/05/2025 18:45

blubberyboo · 17/05/2025 18:38

I'm not kow-towing to anyone dear!

I'm pointing out that where the left has failed women and allowed to fester then male supremacy ideologies creep in. This will always happen if left unchecked.

The left did that

You need to hold the left to account

Edited

I heard your kow-towing and mollycoddling the first time.

Left-wing liberals write bad laws: blame The Left

Right-wing conservatives write bad laws: blame The Left.

You position is clear.

I will only ever hold to account those who are accountable -those who legislate for laws are accountable for their legislation.

diabeticdd · 17/05/2025 18:46

Lovelysummerdays · 17/05/2025 18:13

I think that’s awful tbh. So after the trauma of losing someone you love 7 months later you have to face the possibility of having a profoundly disabled child who may not survive plus an enormous medical bill. Her poor child and parents as well.

I feel like the state should bear the cost if it’s insisting on keeping a brain dead woman alive.

I agree if the family don’t agree then they should not have to pay

Liz1tummypain · 17/05/2025 18:46

Americans are bloody nuts.

Youstolemygoddamnhouse · 17/05/2025 18:47

Fangisnotacoward · 17/05/2025 18:32

It's a situation beyond horrible.

Aside from the morals of the situation, as she's in the US, how much are her family being charged each day to keep this woman alive as an incubator. If she has insurance, I highly doubt the insurance company are willing to pay up for this.

The foetus apparently has water on the brain and is likely to be born disabled to some degree. Who will be expected to care for this child? The woman's family?

It must be absolute torture for them.

I assume her family will look after the child. No mention of father in the article, so will probably be brought up by the grandmother? The woman also had a five year old boy.

OP posts:
ButterCrackers · 17/05/2025 18:47

Why can’t the family decide? Will they harvest her organs afterwards as well?

JHound · 17/05/2025 18:48

Youstolemygoddamnhouse · 17/05/2025 18:47

I assume her family will look after the child. No mention of father in the article, so will probably be brought up by the grandmother? The woman also had a five year old boy.

I assume the father was the boyfriend - they mention him at the start.

YankSplaining · 17/05/2025 18:52

I’m done having children, but if someone had raised this as a hypothetical when I was pregnant with either of mine, I would have said, “If the baby’s still alive, don’t you dare take me off life support until after either delivery or a natural miscarriage.” Is there any indication what Adriana herself might have wanted if she’d known she was going to end up in this situation?

blubberyboo · 17/05/2025 18:52

JHound · 17/05/2025 18:45

I heard your kow-towing and mollycoddling the first time.

Left-wing liberals write bad laws: blame The Left

Right-wing conservatives write bad laws: blame The Left.

You position is clear.

I will only ever hold to account those who are accountable -those who legislate for laws are accountable for their legislation.

Edited

The left has benefitted from decades of women's rights movements. They should have had women's backs and not left them politically homeless and having to choose between their own fairness and dignity on a daily basis versus some other women's right to an abortion.

Those legislators will never support abortion but the left should have anticipated ways for them to gain support and resisted. They didn't.

So yes the left is the most to blame.

Lovelysummerdays · 17/05/2025 18:55

Youstolemygoddamnhouse · 17/05/2025 18:47

I assume her family will look after the child. No mention of father in the article, so will probably be brought up by the grandmother? The woman also had a five year old boy.

I watched her interview on nbc the grandmother reckoned she’d share responsibilities with her daughter’s partner. I’m sure it’s not about money but can you imagine going from a 2 income, one child familyto being a single parent of a 6 yo, a profoundly disabled baby and a financially crippling medical bill. He’s going to need support.

Tutorpuzzle · 17/05/2025 18:56

Lamelie · 17/05/2025 18:07

I’m weakly anti abortion but that is horrific. Poor woman, poor woman’s family.

With absolutely respect (honestly, I’m not being snarky) being ‘anti-abortion’, however ‘weakly’ is too simplistic.

If you mean you are anti the provision of safe and legal abortion procedures the only alternative will be those of the back street variety (for those who can’t afford to travel). God knows how many women in the US have risked this recently. Because abortions ain’t going to stop happening, however illegal they’re made.

Echobelly · 17/05/2025 18:57

Utterly horrific, and the family are having to pay the bills for this torment as well. I hope someone can raise funds to help them.

I agree that if this happened when live birth was viable you would probably want to try to deliver the baby, but not from 9 weeks. These 'forced birthers' are ghouls.