School's punishment of all boys in year 6

[htdt]

My son is in Year 6 and has done SATS this week, today was meant to be a fun day for them as they've finished all the papers.

But my son came back from school really upset as the teachers had separated the girls and boys and he says the girls got to do fun activities and given treats but the boys got told off and given a lesson on respect.

He's taken this badly and has said things like 'I must be bad because I'm a boy'.

It's such a shame because he's worked really hard and was otherwise enjoying SATS week, but now feels horrible about himself, the teachers who told them off and the girls getting rewarded when all the boys were punished.

I feel like I need to speak to the school next week and find out what's gone on and why. I also feel like making a complaint. But I'm not sure what they are going to do to make things better even if they did agree with me that it was not a great way to deal with some boy's bad behaviour and also very bad timing so should I just forget about it...?

It's funny but "I've got far too much to think about" is what you hear at multi-school teacher training events from those teachers who can't be bothered to improve their practice. Because children aren't in a position to make adults listen to them, lots of people get very tempted to tell them to put up and shut up. It's less work, right?

The ironic thing? It's actually less work to do things properly the first time! If kids have a good relationship with their teacher, understand the rules, and know they won't get punished unless they misbehave... astonishingly enough you get better behaviour and have less behaviour corrections to do. If you speak to parents proactively, they too will help you manage behaviour. If you empower your TAs to have good relationships with the children and to speak honestly to parents, you'll have their help as well. Amazing isn't it? If you wait for parents to track you down after you've made half arsed, lazy decisions, hoping the parents will equally not care about their child's response to, and reflections during punishments, then you'll have a conversation brewing that takes a LOT more of your time.

Ridiculous comment upthread about boys being taught STEM Subjects whilst the girls are taught cooking etc. It sounds like something from Victorian times up to 1940's maybe. Poster is not living in the world as it is, female med students outnumber males for example

Yes, that was exactly my point in response to the bizarre sexist suggestion that a treat was automatically 'relevant' to girls whilst a punishment was 'relevant' to boys as part of their school education.

"Probably" is doing a lot of lifting there.

They were all told off because the school decided to punish all for the actions of a few.

And you are right its not that deep. If you want children to act with respect you treat them with respect and as individuals.

You don't teach respect by disrespecting those that have done no wrong.

And frankly even if this was just a cack-handed way of teaching a lesson that was missed or even needed, it should have been given to both sexes and not at the end of a week where treats were promised and missed out on.

So to recap, some people think children who behaved well should be punished anyway because:

• They should have policed their peers and prevented anyone from misbehaving. Even if they weren't in the vicinity.
• It's character building and will create resilience to be subjected to shit teaching and poor practices.
• Parents who care about behaviour management strategies backfiring in their child's school are pandering to the children who are affected.
• Boys have more responsibility than girls to make sure paid teachers aren't bothered by poor behaviour and in a position where they have to do their jobs well.
• Adults are busy and overwhelmed and can't be bothered with the responsibility of raising kids fairly.

it is very related to both the sex and gender. School are not acting in accordance with individuals behaviour (regardless of sex M or F) and so are ignoring personal accounatbility for any mean actions towards another group (girls). But in segregating the groups into sex (M/F) and doing a collective punnishment it reinforced binary gender roles. I doubt the teachers who came up with the plan really thought it through. Better to deal with the individuals concerned but that is probably more difficul for the school so they do it as a whole group without considering consquences.

Yes, sorry @IfYouPutASausageInItItsNotAViennetta I know it wasn't clear but I was referring to @hangingonfordearlife1 post but I realise what I wrote looks as if it's criticising yours, sorry again!

It doesn’t matter what the infraction was. It is wrong to punish everyone for the wrong doings of a few. It is wrong to withdraw a promised reward that was used to encourage hard work when the hard work has been done. I would be complaining to the school. You won’t get any joy but you can let them know you are cross. Then take your little boy and a few of his (well behaved) friends out for a really lovely treat.

Yes we live in a very bizarre world don’t we. I long for the time when teachers really understand children and put their well being first.

Most teachers I know do this every day.

If this was directed at me, that's not what I was saying at all.

Heaven forbid the teachers might actually know what they're doing rather than people on a random forum with little information to go on....
But that seems to be how it goes now, parents know far better than the teachers teaching their children.

Teachers are human and sometimes they make very poor decisions and/or do mean things - just like any other human might do.

In this instance, the TA herself acknowledged that OP's DS had been punished for being male.

If you genuinely believe that teaching staff can do no wrong, why do you suppose they all have to have regular DBS checks?

Teachers are not immune to making mistakes, there’s nothing so special about them and in OPs child’s situation they made a cracker of a mistake

Sexist collective punishment

Lets hope they’ve realised over the weekend how wrong this was. Let’s hope someone from the school is on Mumsnet and has learnt a thing or two from the intelligent mumsnetters here who clearly have a lot more common sense than they do!

Teachers on here (myself included) have said that group punishments are wrong.

It's against the UNICEF Rights of the Child and most schools also don't allow mass punishments. By separating the class into two, the class teacher has clearly tried to avoid "punishing the whole class". I would be very surprised if blanket punishment in this way is acceptable in the school though. One of my biggest regrets is not saying something when a teacher did this ... A teacher who went on to chronically emotionally abuse my child. Please show your child you don't find this acceptable by saying something.

He didn’t separate just one class into the two sexes. It’s far worse
He separated the entire year !

Plus it’s a big school. There are 100 boys alone so it sounds like it may be a six form entry ( or so )

No, teachers are not perfect, of course they aren't and maybe here they have messed up.
However, even if they have, unlike many others on here, I think the OP's son will survive and not be that damaged from the experience.
There has been a lot of drama and exaggeration on this thread.
As has already been said, it will be interesting to hear the OP's update once she has found out more.
In the meantime, i expect her son has already forgotten about it....

I’m glad to hear it. But too many don’t. I agree things have improved since I worked in schools but we’ve still a long way to go.

Interesting how the actions of one teacher have evolved into the usual teacher bashing.

I don’t

SATS are unfortunately a big part of year 6 and the rewards after to get them through it mean a lot. The whole point is to focus on the hard work regardless of results.

Um, you do realise this thread isn't about SATS don't you?
Have you posted in the wrong place?

From the op-

“My son is in Year 6 and has done SATS this week, today was meant to be a fun day for them as they've finished all the papers.“

Kind of feel the opening paragraph to the op is very relevant.

Have you posted in the wrong place?

As a former TA I would have judged the teacher for doing this.
It's completely wrong to take away a treat for 100 boys because some of them have been mean to girls. I get why they want to nip sexism in the bud but they have gone about it in totally the wrong way and may have done more harm than good.
This is the sort of thing that the Andrew Tate followers use as ammunition against feminism. It's heavy handed and unnecessary.
They could have had a lesson on respect but the girls should have been included as well and it should not have replaced something more fun. Also - Why were the girls excluded from the lesson? Don't they need to learn about how to respect people and how they should be respected? That's just as important.
This was completely wrong and I would be asking to speak to the head and possibly talking to other parents to get a combined response.

My initial read was that it was a very green/inexperienced teacher; you know the kind where the experienced TA at the back of the room almost has their head in their hands watching the mess they're making.

But then extra details revealed this was actually a school decision for more than one class! Unbelievable.

And not one of the teachers or senior staff could find the time to send out an email explaining why.

For what it's worth, I've spent most of this past year on a behaviour course mixing with lots of different types of teachers from lots of different schools. We've had brilliant, innovative discussions on behaviour, and the course leader, a primary headteacher for a group of primaries, was an absolute wealth of information...So I definitely agree with you in the main; that teachers know what they're doing. It's a brilliant and cutting edge profession and we are always improving.

But anyone who would have pitched this idea, scotching a reward as a group punishment (because of the gender of the group!), on that course as a behaviour management technique would have failed spectacularly. The course leader was pretty good at squashing ideas that were unfair, unworkable, unreasonable, or y' know.. batcrap crazy.