DH won't let daughter go on school trip to mosque

[RealUmberAnt]

I'm shocked and appalled!! He (M41)says he doesn't want her (DD12) learning about people who marry there daughters off at 9 years old and all their women are oppressed and forced to cover up and do as their told!

I feel like he's taring all Muslims with the same brush and it's good to learn about other religions and see other places of worship!

I'm so mad!! I honestly don't think I can stay with someone who has these opinions!!

It must be like looking in the mirror Betty.

Don't stop. We were checking off stereotypes.

We're back to child brides. You're repeating yourself. Everyone must be stupid in comparison to you Bets. All us mortals can do is stare up at you in awe.

I used to live in the southern part of the United States, where half my friends went to evangelical churches who taught exactly the same thing. What's your point, exactly?

Of the 10 countries with the highest child marraige rates, Islam is the most common religion in 6 of them, Christianity in 3 of them and Hinduism in 1 of them.

All of the resources I can find suggest it's an issue accross faiths, and that poverty is by far and away the factor most associated with the practice of child marraige.

And even in developed countries, and while it's prevelance seems to vary by church, I don't think Christians can get too high and mighty about child abuse.

Educated people know the facts about all major world religions (you can't understand anything about the last 2000 years of European history and culture without knowing about Christianity; you'll never understand anything about the Arab world without understanding Islam). Stand up to your DH and send her (you know, seeing as you're not one of those oppressed women he worries about), and discuss the issues with her after.

Yes, for the majority of women it is a choice. For many it sadly is not. That doesn't mean it's not a choice for others.

I'm well aware that Islam isn't a race, but sometimes the meaning of words evolves and sometimes words aren't so literal. So for example antisemitism is a hatred of Jewish people as opposed to a hatred of Semites.

As someone not originally from the UK, I find school uniforms oppressive. The fact the children can be denied education because they're not wearing the right item of clothing is mind blowing!

I hope he extends the same principle to other religions. The CofE and Catholic churches have both had plenty of child abuse scandals, some of which have been covered up by church leaders.

Well, I don’t agree with him (and haven’t voted), but you can’t just dismiss everything that he is saying. There are problems with the way Islam ‘places’ women/girls in society etc.

I’d suggest that instead of banning her from the trip, he be a bit smarter about his misgivings. Both parents could make a list of sensibly worded but pertinent questions for her to ask on the trip. For example about the separate entrances and areas within the mosque for women vs men. Make it a proper learning experience.

No, he is not correct about Islam!!!

As a religion they do not marry their daughters off at 9 years old and as a religion/culture the women are not oppressed and told what to do.

Yes, there are, unfortunately, a few Islamic countries who use the religion as a weapon to carry out these despicable acts but that does not make the religion its self bad. Just like the disgusting priests that commit CSA do not make the whole of the Christain religion a bad religion.

Tricky one. I would personally let my son go (we're an atheist family, but have family of different religions e.g. Sikh, Unitarian, Christian, Muslim), however if I had a daughter I get being more reluctant to expose her to a religion that sees her as a second class citizen and demands that she cover up because she might tempt men to assault her. I have nothing against Muslims in the slightest.

I don't think he's being racist for this, he has actual reasons for his concerns other than just not wanting her to be around brown people.

I would probably try talk to him and see if there's a middle ground: absolutely allow her to go on these trips, but have an open dialogue at home about culture and religious beliefs and how they're interpreted, it's really tricky because I see myself as a pretty lefty liberal progressive yet I have to remind myself there are beliefs that aren't equally worth representation, it's okay to say something is atrocious and not condone it. My son has asked about head coverings when he sees people with hijab, abaya, niqab, and I'm very neutral when I explain it.

I’m very glad your friend has a positive experience with her religion and obviously where it is practised moderately it isn’t very harsh on women. I would assume that the majority of Muslims in the UK are moderate but there are areas where it clearly isn’t and women are fully covered.

Can you expand on what you mean by Islamophobia though? While I am generally happy for people to practise their religion, in my mind it must come with caveats. It mustn’t impinge badly on others, it mustn’t be used to subjugate a particular group (like women) and I don’t like cruelty to animals. These caveats are essential because the very bad aspects of Islam are practised on a daily basis by millions and have a terrible impact on some.

To a certain extent there are some bad aspects practised in this country - the animal cruelty (halal slaughter), covering of women required by some and Islamic terrorism (which is apparently approx 75% of MI5s prevention work) and the highly contentious issue of Muslim grooming gangs where the ex Muslim Raja Miah reports that unlike ‘white British’ (for want of a better characterisation) thr paedophiles and rapists were not vilified and ostracised like we do, but many remained happily in their communities with their marriages continuing (was that because the women accepted that their husband was a rapist it because it’s very hard for a woman to divorce in Islam? Or was it because, as Raja says, the Koran says it is ok to rape white girls because non believers are not fully human?)) Arguably these crimes were also facilitated by largely Muslim people in councils and the police. The government don’t want to touch it again. Forget justice for the tens of thousands of raped girls.

Btw the Islamic terrorists in the UK are waging what they call ‘holy war’ on all of us (non believers) and their stated aim is to kill us or forcibly convert us. I hope the Muslim Council of Britain is expending as much energy as we are in helping to quash these terrorist views.

I guess that is part of the issue though - when we look at Islam as a whole there are some very bad bits that are actively practised and justified via the Koran. Obviously moderate Muslims are great abut we can’t accept Islam wholesale and it shouldn’t be deemed racist or Islamophobic to calm out the really bad bits. Silencing discussion on it is unhealthy for all of us.

I think we should be careful to explicitly caveat our support for Islam (like so many are so quick to criticise Christianity, rightly so in some cases) and not to silence people who have issues with it by calling them racist.

We are rightly holding the leaders of the Christian church responsible for the many sex crimes perpetrated by their employees, why aren’t we asking the Muslim Council of Britain to take more responsibility for the Islamic terrorists?

To the knee jerk pps who are calling OPs DH all sorts of names and saying she should leave him - maybe he has just thought about his opinions more than you?

Explains the Reform vote though doesn’t it?

Remind me again what power women have in the Catholic Church?

As a Christian some of my deepest conversations have been with Muslims.

But surely those are reasons for her to go so she can make up her own mind about it?

Of course she should be learning about different religions but she also needs to know about how women are treated at the hands of some of those religions (not just Islam).

Have you mentioned the religion based oppression of women in Afghanistan for example?

love! Low IQ socialists is a new one. I didn’t know mumsnet came with an IQ test, I haven’t done mine yet. It’s about empathy and understanding and not everything being black and white.

He's a racist cunt. HTH

Funny how people cherry pick the bible, the fact that catholic priests have been abusing children for eons is ignored. Evangelical Christians also marry off their daughters to old men etc

But it's only bad when a select group (same as the above, not all, select groups/factions) they don't like do it, ohhh it's oh so much worse.

Most Muslims are moderate. Same as Christians. It's a shame many can't see that.

.

You're right, it's an ideology. A dangerous one.

It changes. I'm not far right, you're far right. You're the far left. You're fascists (once had to school someone on why the left wing couldn't be fascists), language doesn't mean anything anymore (I'm not far right/racist), it's just an opinion (racism), you're stoopid! And so it goes on.

This type of thread is daily lately.
Your DH is unreasonable and ridiculous.

Raging that I missed the deleted posts. 😅

They weren't very interesting tbh @EmeraldShamrock000. Just the usual nonsense that you'll have seen on all of the other threads.

Does she need his permission? You have parental authority too: can't you just sign the permission slip yourself? It might be helpful for her to hear a counter narrative to his nonsense.

Also, I couldn't tolerate that level of prejudice in a partner, or that level of stupidity. I'd be sending him every article about Christian underage marriage that I could get my hand on. Look at America.

Bore off