To think Starmer is utterly reprehensible

[Thegreyhound]

I know everyone will disagree, that’s ok- But I just have to say that Starmer today seems to have sunk lower than I ever believed he would with his incendiary ‘island of strangers’ and ‘incalculable damage’ rhetoric.
I find it particularly shocking because he has calculated this and decided it’s worth it to throw immigrants under the bus and essentially give all the ground in the debate to Farage, Tommy Robinson and Enoch Powell types.
Policy can be altered without making statements that are designed to impact race relations and make life even more difficult for people who are just trying to get along and make a living here.
Starmer is vile. This country does indeed feel like an island of strangers these days but the strangers are not the immigrants :(

Because with a high earning spouse he wouldn’t be eligible for any. You do know benefits are means tested?

Labour can never 'out xenophobe' the Tories or Reform.

I'm so depressed that they're trying to do so.

@Cleo65

"& carry on rolling out the red carpet for those coming in illegally...."

What do you mean by 'rolling out the red carpet'? I'm going to guess you've never visited a migrant hostel and have no idea that £200 a month is the most a migrant will get to feed and cloth themselves?

Or are you referring to asylum seekers getting due process and having their claims for asylum heard? Is that what counts as 'red carpet treatment' in your world?

You do know they could easily come here and split? The rules are the rules. Don’t whinge about them.

This is why I say comparatively. Nobody is advocating for towers in the sky.

They also haven’t changed them. They know the electorate wouldn’t go for it. Albanese has already had a term and didn’t, nor did he run on doing that.

Reform is the only party to get close to Aus style hardline system. Which the left would likely keep if they got in after.

Sheppy?

You present a false dichotomy. The choice isn’t the extremes of open borders and a pure-blooded ethno-state.

Personally I think much of the immigration we have had since WWII has benefited the UK and allowed to be a more tolerant, outward-looking society.

However, for immigration to be beneficial, numbers can’t be so huge that it drains resources we can’t afford and allows for ghettos to be created where there is little, if any, attempt to integrate into British society, and accept our core values of democracy, tolerance and freedoms.

What we have had in recent years is undermining the heart of society, creating a balkanisation of separate cultures with radically different values and outlooks. It’s a recipe for disaster, and needs to be addressed, not made worse by welcoming millions for in.

Well come to my bit of London- we are losing sky like no one’s business. It is really sad.

I’m not “whinging”. I’m pointing out facts - which don’t appear to suit you.

When we went through this ten years ago, I think you had to also have a job lined up in the UK, so perhaps that’s the stumbling block, though it may have changed since. There’s also other more complex issues to consider, such as if you were to lose your job three years through the five years, then you’re back to square one. Got a five year old at home? Well daddy has lost his job so he can be the stay at home parent now, can’t he? But unfortunately mummy no longer meets the criteria to stay in the country with her British husband and British child. Bye mummy, have a nice life!

The fact is the husband doesn’t plan to work. Therefore he’s not eligible to come here. As it should be.

We’re constantly told that the British don’t have a good work ethic any more. My graduate sons are desperate for entry-level jobs but are constantly told that the person with more experience got the job. Far fewer employers seem to want to offer training these days.

And when employers complain that local people don’t want to take their jobs, I wonder whether anyone could live on what they are paying?

Regarding pressure on resources: I redialled my local GP surgery 102(!) times on one day last week to try to get an an appointment, before giving up. I managed to get one the following day. There were posters on the surgery walls saying they were under pressure because of inadequate funding of GP practices and also a big increase in population locally.

People will vote based on their own personal experiences. I would rather chew off my arm than vote Reform. But I can see that if things don’t change for lower-income areas in particular within the next couple of years, we could be seeing Farage in Downing Street.

I have a NEET child at home who is looking for work and doesn't claim benefits. There are absolutely not loads of minimum wage jobs available, at least in my area. Numerous applications have been sent and some interviews attended. As yet no job.

But if they are earning in excess of 100k (in order to pay 50k in taxes) I fail to see how her getting a job in the UK for £29k is hard? New graduate teachers earn more… and this is clearly a professional person of some sort, with a decade of work experience under her belt?

That’ll be because of the fact illegal immigrants can be employed without being registered, thus saving money for the employers.

My part of London is also 'losing loads of sky' in that we've had a lot of high rises built.

As a home owner I feel like my pleasure in an uninterrupted view of the sky isn't anywhere near as important as other people's need to be housed.

For migrant housing?

My family was priced out of London almost a decade ago. At that time there were a lot of former council estates, often low rise, nice quality, being replaced by extremely expensive high rise blocks, marketed overseas first so largely empty, with maybe a couple of "affordable" flats included to meet the berry low requirements of developers. There did not tend to be refugees and migrants living there because even at that time they started from c 500k for a studio. And these were traditional working class areas in north London, not K&C or anything.

This is next level foreigner hatred - being against the non British spouse of a British national.

I think you are being disingenuous! You do realise that some cultures and religions don't have tolerance built into them in the same way that British culture currently does? This isn't racist or xenophobic but a matter of fact. British culture is built on Christian Western ideals that are fundamentally incompatible with some belief systems. We need to be very very careful that we don't forget this and assume that everyone has equal capacity to be tolerant. Religious and cultural rules and norms means this simply isn't the case

That I understand - I generally support the longer period of residency before being eligible to apply for naturalisation, but I think there should be a sliding scale for long-term married partners. Ie, no reduction in that period for new spouses, but massively shortened period if someone has been married 5, 10, 15 years etc and especially where there are joint children concerned.

I guess it’s just a white paper now, so hopefully some of the nuance around married partners/spousal visa rules will get ironed out before a Bill is finally presented.

I’m quite frankly sick of being heckled when I walk down the street because I am not dressed in a style that is acceptable to these men. I am constantly told to cover my hair. I am sick to the back teeth of it. So yes, I don’t think immigration should be allowed. At this point it should be halted all together until we have control of our streets.

I don't mind mixing up soulless coffee chains from 15 years ago. It turns out I was thinking about 'nero'.
Although I'm surprised costa is British bc it is so 'american'

The only way Farage is going to be in Downing Street is as leader of the Conservative Party. (would they be that stupid and shirtsighted? Probably).

That said Starmer is certainly doing his best to turn off the circa 60% of the electorate which nearly always vote left of centre. Oooh, lovely Tories destroying themselves trying to ape Reform? Open goal right here, surely for the left under a first past the post system with two right wing parties trying to outdo each other? Nah - let’s go and join their scrap.

You are right, it is not wrong to try to avoid further allienation amongst those living together, but it is the timing and his words sound more divisive than anything else and more like Farage than a labour party. To me. Others do agree.
It reads to me like he has just come up with a tough stand on immigration to "oppose" Reform. Not because it is a deep convintion and was always a concern of his. And his party. I do not see deep phylosophical views expressed here by him. Dissapointing.

In London you’d probably get a job but there’s the high costs of living. Things like age might be a factor in finding work anywhere.