To think Starmer is utterly reprehensible

[Thegreyhound]

I know everyone will disagree, that’s ok- But I just have to say that Starmer today seems to have sunk lower than I ever believed he would with his incendiary ‘island of strangers’ and ‘incalculable damage’ rhetoric.
I find it particularly shocking because he has calculated this and decided it’s worth it to throw immigrants under the bus and essentially give all the ground in the debate to Farage, Tommy Robinson and Enoch Powell types.
Policy can be altered without making statements that are designed to impact race relations and make life even more difficult for people who are just trying to get along and make a living here.
Starmer is vile. This country does indeed feel like an island of strangers these days but the strangers are not the immigrants :(

Oh you mean the violent thugs burning things down, looting their own local shops and terrorising anyone they didn't like the look, of all in the name of "defending the country" and shamelessly exploiting the grief of families of little girls they couldn't tell you the names of if asked because they were too excited they now had "justification" for their vile actions?

I’m not sure Starmer’s approach will change that. It might shore up support and a win.

I am shocked, disappointed and gobsmacked, to be honest.
I was hoping for a bit more of a back bone and some actual left sentiment.
It is like Starmer has just turned into Farage himself overnight.
And do not get me wrong, I do fully get the issue with lack of integration in some communities and I am pro the further control of legal immigration ( if needs be) and very much against illegal immigration.

Well I said London is "seemingly" unsafe. There's no evidence to suggest that it's less safe than it previously was.

@TheFastTraybake I don’t understand this.
You say it’s ‘seemingly unsafe’ but apparently it’s not actually unsafe. If that’s the case what is the relevance of it being ‘unequal’?

I disagree with you that it’s not unsafe. People are robbed, have their phones snatched and their cars broken into the whole time.

Their actions were unacceptable. However, they were the sympton of the problem that you're defending right now. Labour voters are in a quandary. Years of bleating about how Labour will do better and it's all falling apart. Starmer has had a rude awakening on his entry into PM.

@Thegreyhound

Sadly, I think it is a global
shift. All the countries that score highly on the scale of individualism, and those that hold the power are shifting towards a more extreme right wing ideology. It’s not just the UK. As a result of Covid, war, financial pressure.

I don’t know if it’s just that we go through cycles of nature/nurture - and we are globally peaking into a nature cycle.

So - if you're in favour of measures to restrict immigration and you think there are issues with lack of integration... what's so gobsmacking?

It might be my immigrant-ness shining through but I honestly don't see where he's wrong in saying that if we don't take steps to improve integration, particularly around language skills of immigrants, "we risk becoming an island of strangers, not a nation that walks forward together."

To my reading, he's not saying that immigrants are all "strangers". He's saying that lack of integration risks fracturing communities and damaging cohesion, so there need to be steps to avoid that.

His rhetoric has always been a weapon. Now he’s done a full 180 with the island of strangers stuff.

Half of mn are taken in but this is a very Labour site. The DM are even more Reform after this I’d say.

I'm not wading into this debate, but can you honestly not see the difference that it would take using interpreters for such a large proportion of consultations..?

Does Labour figure in these types of posts? They are in power and we have a Labour mayor.

Starmer even got a pass on the women and cervix comment. Very few Labour voting MNetters came out and condemned him on that.

^ this

@EasternStandard

I think Mumsnet is a nurture site so tends to veer towards left wing thinking,

@DangermooI think for some he can do or say anything. He could take their house it’s Starmer.

Mn is probably the last pro Labour site left though.

Yes, very nurturing of the big mouth with his sound system heckling the outgoing PM. Things can only get better reinvented. That aged well.

I have a child with an EHCP, and I’m definitely seeing a shift against nurture in schools. There is no money to support so we need to exclude seems to be the ethos.

Similarly there is no money to support immigration so we exclude.

The problem is not racism but a genuine concern that countries find it difficult to host indifferent faiths and cultures without some form of tension. Please as the formation of Pakistan as an historical example.

In the city near where I live you seem to have sped segregating ghettos of immigrants who seem to wish to be somehow separate from other communities to practise their faith (Islam) and be in close proximity to family and future spouses. This concentration of ethnic minorities leads to areas where often working class people with generations of British ancestors feel in a minority and look to move.

We are also conscious of the fact some immigrants do not like aspects of western liberal values and specifically do not respect many of our great institutions. In my town army cadets are not allowed to walk around town in uniform for fear of attack. This a few days after VE day.

It is this lack of social cohesion coupled with increasing numbers of people that in reality have value sets that aren't aligned to British values that sets alarm bells ringing and had led to the politics in Europe moving to the right (it's not just us look at Europe and the US). Starker has had to react.

Another important point is language. It is imperative that immigrants do have a good quality of English for work purposes and to easily communicate with members of society in gneral. In to many cases our local schools have had to accept the burden of teaching pupils with English as a second language with obvious impact on educational acheivment. In some cases parents do support the learning of a high quality of English but in others, especially poorer immigrants, see their language as something that has to be passed down in terms of identity and so leading to poor immigrant children desperately trying to become bi lingual often at cost.

Looking at crowds for the London marathon and VE day it is striking how few obviously Muslim people go to these things and you have to ask do we wish in 40 years time to have a self segregating country where our joint history and culture is slowly eroded?

I know I’ll be criticised but I agree with him but I am influenced by my family’s immigrant journey

when my family turned up on British shores in the early 20th century, the second they arrived they anglicised their names. They gave up their old identity and committed to being British. They also did not pass on their language to their children so not to perpetuate an inward looking culture of their old country. This was very common thinking back then

But it worked. as a result we are all fully British. I have never even been to my ancestor’s countries. I don’t identify with any of their history or customs. It is just my DNA as it should be - Interesting but not who I am. Surely that should be the end goal of immigration that you leave your old history at the door and adopt the new? That is what I think when I hear a country of strangers- we should all be 90% British culture with 10% variation from our backgrounds. Not the other way around.

Yep it’s just this. He’s not siding with farage it’s self preservation, could have been any policy. King is dead long live the king approach. Like Boris and Brexit, like all the celebs who had private jets and now are so moved by climate change.

its more surprising that you are surprised.

@mids2019

I think what you have stated there is represents a more global shift in thinking by the world’s most individualistic/powerful countries.

Post Covid, financial pressure, war is causing a focus on the negative impact of immigration.

I work for an advocacy organisation. The green paper and what he is doing to people with learning disabilities is what we should be angry at. He is a disabilist arsewipe and I will never vote labour again.

The Labour Party, led by Keir and others is not in any way, Reform Lite. Please look at long term beliefs and considered policies.
Unfortunately we are not in the glory days of 97 when we were optimistic and excited but for some of us, just having the grown ups back in the building, making difficult decisions, as a party of service, as opposed to a party of self interest, we understand and will forgive them for reacting to the overarching concerns of the population whilst not actually deporting people.
I do agree that some of the party lines are not what I expected or voted for, but as you can see from this thread, apparently our government is far too liberal and welcoming to “foreigners” than most would like.
i agree, Starmer’s comms may have badly addressed a populist opinion, but read the details behind the headlines. Please.
We could have Farage in charge.

I'm an immigrant myself and I agree with a lot of what you've said. My kids are were born here and their Dad is British and while I like them to know about my heritage and culture, and they are dual citizens, it's not the culture they're growing up in and that they live in.

I would really love it if one of the people who is angry about this speech would actually explain to me why it's so reprehensible that he said without measures to improve integration, especially around language, we risk becoming a nation of strangers rather than a cohesive and united one.

I just don't get it.

Immigration has worked historically when immigrants have been willing to integrate and respect of not take on their host culture. I would do so if I emmigrated.
The realisation is dawning that a lot of the recent waves of immigration have brought people to the country whose sole reason for wishing to live here is economic and in reality there is no desire to participate in what we would call general British life; indeed many (especially some Muslims) decry our way of life and view liberal values with disdain. If immigration is uncapped these value sets gain political force and we see the outcome with MPs voted in because of remote conflict in the middle east..

It is this potential polarisation of society leading to separate communities with separate values and view of the UK that rightly worried people.

The op has twice. Why do people keep posting they need explanations.