To think Starmer is utterly reprehensible

[Thegreyhound]

I know everyone will disagree, that’s ok- But I just have to say that Starmer today seems to have sunk lower than I ever believed he would with his incendiary ‘island of strangers’ and ‘incalculable damage’ rhetoric.
I find it particularly shocking because he has calculated this and decided it’s worth it to throw immigrants under the bus and essentially give all the ground in the debate to Farage, Tommy Robinson and Enoch Powell types.
Policy can be altered without making statements that are designed to impact race relations and make life even more difficult for people who are just trying to get along and make a living here.
Starmer is vile. This country does indeed feel like an island of strangers these days but the strangers are not the immigrants :(

Starmer is as self interested in power as any. If not more. You don’t go from ‘dog whistle’ attacks to ‘island of strangers’ without focusing on your own career and craven politics.

Too bad he is trying to out-Reform Reform. Not going to end well for Labour

No, she hasn't. And neither have the others who have similarly claimed it's divisive/anti-immigrant/Farageist/ceding ground to Tommy Robinson.

There have been a lot of assertions that this rhetoric is those things - but very little on why it is considered so divisive and incendiary.

I'm being told I've bee thrown under a bus, but I'm struggling to see the bloody bus.

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. The right have such an easy ride because the left/centre will ALWAYS eat itself at the first opportunity.

Maybe because you’re not the only person hearing the phrase.

Your reaction is your own. Others have posted their’s. There’s no mystery on why. It’s written clearly.

Spending other people's money doesn't help the economy.

It's very easy to spend other people's money.

What helps the economy is creating value. Usually by working. Value is eg turning wood into furniture, doing an operation, making and serving a meal in a restaurant, choosing the best shares for a client to buy. Also, more abstractly, delaying the use of money you have now to make it available for other people to use to create value themselves (ie interest). Anything where people are willing to pay for what you've done.

And I've had the grace to explain why I have heard it the way I have when others say they've experienced it differently, and shared the background to my perspective and reaction.

And I've politely asked why others consider it so differently to me. I quite like to understand others' points of view, you see - particularly when they seem baffling to me on first encountering them.

I was recently in Italy and was talking to an Italian woman about moving there. She’s lived all over Europe and can speak English, French and German as well as having a basic understanding of other European languages. She’s lived was very supportive of me moving to Italy as I am skilled and educated but one thing she said was “obviously you would need to improve your Italian”. Obviously - it’s a given isn’t it, that you learn the language of the country you live in. Shouldn’t that be the expectation of all countries? Including Britain?

Perfectly said. It's not about 'racism' or skin colour. It's maths and basic logistics.
Uk is one of the smallest countries, whole country is basically the same size as florida and America is roughly 70 times bigger than UK.

Neo liberalism has gutted the country. Its literally about buses, school spaces , and er bins.

Apparently 6Million people entered in borris time. These are not 'handfuls' of people.

This is about aggregates.
Why are the most vulnerable, getting the worst deal. Still?

is this all justifiable to some people bc they 'don't like our country bc of the past' (paraphrasing) and 'we deserve it' ??
What about the fact that alot of weird stuff happened In the past, like burning women at the stake. Can we get a refund on that too? Or how childhood is classed as recent invention of humanity Bc people stopped sending their children to work for the family.
The past was really shit and horrific for many.

But that doesn't mean that anyone 'owes' anyone anything at this scale.

Dose this line in thinking/lack of thinking co inside with lower standards of school education and teaching? Bc surely most ppl understand the world is made up of good and bad.

The White Guilt can bore off.

The UK gives billions in aid ( maybe its misused but that's another thing )

slavery it's a human phenomena , not started by the west. It happened everywhere in everyway.

It's not a personality trait of western people, a glitch we have to iron out incase we start colonising in our sleep.

Vast majority of peoples backgrounds is a family who would have been toothless and toiling the land.

Why should underprivileged people with no in roads to stability, and no connection to that echelon of society have to bare the 'guilt' ?
Why are children being sold these ideas at primary school?

Not to mention the infrastructure just won't work. electric grid can't cope and this type of 'growth' means more winter blackouts. There 'solution' is just more 'growth' maybe it'll be fracking/offshore bollocks/solar fields/wind turbines that shut down when it gets too windy and are started by diesel generators/
Butching the land. That's growth.
But not giving people access to higher education without a ridiculous loan.
Or a living wage for an unglamorous but essential job.

He didn't go far enough and has no plans to stop the boats.

😂 😂

I think Starmer will spend his time being the 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' prime minister. He's certainly in danger of trying to be all things to all people and not working for anyone. I did expect a better first budget and a more compassionate tone towards at least one section of society. I'm not certain we've seen any. Hopefully that will come if they can create economic growth (not sure why they shot themselves in the foot with the NI changes)

They were clear before the election though that they would tackle immigration, including legal immigration. The conservatives were responsible for that increasing year on year, and they also did little to deport those who got here illegally. Labour have repeatedly said they are pro training and skills and they want to see UK businesses offering training and skills development to our young people and unemployed, before importing someone already skilled to do the job. Immigration has allowed businesses to not put their hand in their pocket to pay for skills training and kept wages (above minimum wage) low

I also think some here underestimate the impact that immigration has had on towns and cities if they don't live in one of those towns or cities negatively impacted. If they have not witnessed the rapid change. I live on the outskirts of one of the towns that has changed beyond recognition, since the local population no longer feel safe nor see a visit to town as a pleasant thing to do. And then the deprivation grows. Massive slum like HMOs are spreading from the town outwards. Organised crime has become an issue. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have come here and work an honest job and live a decent integrated family life. But the visible element is the groups of men hanging around the streets all day, the regular shops closing down and being replaced.

This was a town that barely even had any English born people move to it only 15 years ago! We were outsiders for moving here from another part of the country. My relatives in wealthy parts of the south and south west have seen none of this. They're always a bit shocked to visit our town centre. The people in their town centre look the same as they did 15 years ago. Brexit was won by the voters from towns and cities like I live in. Brexit votes didn't come from the places with the highest percentage of foreign born people living there, but they were the places whose population changed most rapidly.

As for care work - it needs its own minimum wage and the care homes run for profit will have to lose some profit.

@Neededa

…but for some of us, just having the grown ups back in the building, making difficult decisions, as a party of service, as opposed to a party of self interest

What nauseating partisan drivel.

It's not spot on, it's either uninformed nonsense or deliberate lies. Nobody is put up in four star hotels and certainly not given a phone/credit.

It can feel like fighting a tsunami, trying to address this kind of disinformation but I guess we have to try. Even if it's just for our own peace of mind, so as not to feel complicit when the battle seems to have been lost.

I'm a person of this country and I want to see continued immigration.

How can that possibly be? 🤷‍♀️

It's too late. We've given our country away bit by bit and we get called racist for complaining. It's cultural vandalism.
It's terrible for women and girls. Near me women don't go out in town anymore as they will be followed and harassed by gangs of idle men who hang around causing trouble. It's so isolating, it's destroyed communities.

A million per cent this ^

If you are coming to a country to squeeze as much money out of it as possible, whilst at best displaying indifference, and at worst open contempt you can hardly be surprised that the people that are paying for all of your food, accommodation, spending money and possibly will continue to the end of your life are feeling aggrieved and unhappy.

There is a world of difference between those that settle here, are invested in the well being and care of our country, contribute and care and those that cultivate crime, division, corruption and danger with no intention of integrating. They are here to take full advantage of this country’s goodwill.

Why though? If Starmer said from tomorrow we won’t take a single immigrant for the next 2 years- We are going to have a reset. Would that be a bad thing?

Process all the outstanding asylum/ visa claims and give the economy a chance to settle down and work out what skills we actually do need. What would be wrong with that? We have a massive population already- I struggle to believe we don’t have enough people now to do all the jobs that need doing.

after that point we can clearly see where we have gaps and can recruit for those jobs.

I really don’t know… you’d have to be insane not to realise that accepting 3 million people since Covid onto an already crowded island (many of whom are not integrating into wider society) has created massive issues.

This can be changed. It’s not too late. Those idle men need to be in productive work. The town needs to be policed so women can walk freely and we need to be far more assertive about the expectations if you are going to live here.

I agree any dissent is closed down and silenced with the lazy labelling of racism. It’s nothing to do with racism.

Actually you are probably right there. I appreciate that comment, it has made me laugh and reflect. It is how I feel, but you’re not wrong, gave me a moment of pause, bipartisanism is certainly not helping any of us. Fair play

There's a perception that London is more dangerous than it used to be and less safe than the rest of the country. There aren't statistics to bear this out, and certainly nothing to suggest that migration into London has led to an increase in crime.

It's a big city with millions of people, lots of cars and phones, huge wealth inequality. Of course there will be a level of crime. How do you link this with immigration?

Totally agree we need a reset.

We need to pause all immigration, integrate and assist the millions here already. Take stock of housing, health care etc so we can actually offer a decent life here.

We can then see where we need to recruit and do so intelligently. Offering visas to those happy to positively contribute to our country. They can come from anywhere if they bring skills and a healthy mindset, willing to invest time and effort into our country. Not just bleeding it dry.

What?!!

Where on earth do you live?