To think Starmer is utterly reprehensible

[Thegreyhound]

I know everyone will disagree, that’s ok- But I just have to say that Starmer today seems to have sunk lower than I ever believed he would with his incendiary ‘island of strangers’ and ‘incalculable damage’ rhetoric.
I find it particularly shocking because he has calculated this and decided it’s worth it to throw immigrants under the bus and essentially give all the ground in the debate to Farage, Tommy Robinson and Enoch Powell types.
Policy can be altered without making statements that are designed to impact race relations and make life even more difficult for people who are just trying to get along and make a living here.
Starmer is vile. This country does indeed feel like an island of strangers these days but the strangers are not the immigrants :(

How harsh immigration is and the individual trials of those experiencing it is not the issue being discussed though.

Legal immigration is controllable
Illegal immigration isn’t. Or at least no country seems to have got a handle on how to stop it so far ( except I think Australia ?)

Do we have to resort to this level of attack on other mumsnetters.
Not only is it incredibly rude but I was enjoying your debate until you lowered yourself and showed us what’s really going on

I lived in Handsworth in the 90s and trudged up and down the main road to the One Stop ( in Perry Barr ) for food and into town and generally got to know Birmingham very well. I don’t recognise it as being dangerous. Unless if you were gay as there was a lot of attacks on people in the gay community. As a woman alone, nothing. Just a nice diverse community of people.

I don't think that poster is really the one lowering the debate.

How do you talk to someone who pretends not to know that there are countries where women systematically abused and married off as children? I think it's ruined what was an interesting discussion.

Whilst thats appreciated
None of that has anything to do with immigrants coming to or currently in this country though.
That’s the point of the thread

Different countries have different laws. Different cultures and religions have traditions that British people may not understand or follow but If they aren’t within our law they cannot practice them here.
As long as people do not isolate themselves and integrate and stay within the law of this country then it’s irrelevant what their past country of origins laws are.

I think some on here are trying to signal out certain immigrants from certain countries through personal prejudices. ( not you Tempest ) but others clearly. That’s unacceptable
Everyone is an individual and has a right to not be discriminated against

I’ve done your homework @JHound 📚

Of course London is seemingly unsafe; it's grossly unequal.

@TheFastTraybake
There are other cities in the world which are unequal - Seoul, Busan, Tokyo for example - so why are they safe?

@Thegreyhound

If I was intending to move to another country, I would follow the official procedure - and if I didn’t I would expect to be turned back
I agree this should be different if you are asylum seeker.

I remember having a discussion on the Covid threads a few years ago about how many sentiments being expressed were exactly from Reform policy - and being scoffed at that they could ever gain power/have Farage back in. Yet this has happened.
Historically we have travelled as ‘strangers’ and taken over other countries in horrific ways. We’ve caused a lot of the anger that is now directed towards us.

I voted for a left wing government, and it feels like a right wing government or a government whose strings are being pulled by Trump type ideology.

I think Covid has caused a lot of people to become extremely individualistic - and the world feels more hostile.
I do think letting people move to our country by any means, unchecked could result in people wanting to move here to cause harm. Many people hate us.
I don’t know the answer. I definitely hear more hostility towards other cultures and that’s wrong. In the 90’s/noughties it felt that there was more acceptance.
I think - across Europe - there seems to be more extreme right wing views. It seems to be a global shift.

without the language chosen and the big fanfare would have been better.

Labour need the language chosen and the big fanfare so they are publicly seen to be doing what a lot of their voters (who are threatening or have already voted Reform) want them to. Reform are gaining a lot of support. Labour probably view this approach as the ends justifying the means.

I live in such a place.

I have - what is your point?

I’m working class and I have only been impacted positively by immigration.

Speaking over your grandmothrr is poor practice for starters. Not that the care hime owners would care so long as they can stuff their homes full of low paid staff, immigrant or not is all that concerns them. I agtee with a PP that quality of care needs to be improved.

You might want to put some flesh on your bare bone statements.

But he just says what he thinks he has to. They all do it but with him he’s just a vacuous mouthpiece.

Politics isn't always about saying what you personally think. Politicians don't have the luxury of fighting for only those causes they hold dear, they also have to sort out problems in the country which may go against their own personal convictions.

it's ridiculous to call Starmer vacuous, that isn't a term compatible with a KC whatever you think of him. I'm no apologist or cheerleader for Labour, but if it was a simple thing to sort out, someone would have, by now.

he's backed into a corner on immigration. Tories did precisely zero towards solving illegal immigration - they weren't a stranger to rhetoric, all about "the boats, stop the boats!!" and remember the £mm spent on Rwanda. Reform aren't in power, they are a one issue party and heaven forbid if they were to be opted into power. They wouldn't have a clue. They'd absolutely trash the economy.

no political party has the silver bullet to resolve illegal immigration.

Is that you Harry?

They don't. They tend to live in beautiful untouched parts of the country , like the Cotswolds, in cutesy cottages and never have to deal with the effects of all unfettered immigration.

I do love these desperate attempts to paint Handsworth as some rich multicultural experience, when in fact it's high crime ridden. Soho Road is a shit hole and driving along it is depressing. The infestation of rats with fly tipping and even rubbish being piled up in the streets. The only good thing to come out of Handsworth is its music.

😆 🤣

Anyone who supports a ‘stop the boats’ type view.
Should the Mayflower have been stopped? Or The Endeavour?

It’s finally dawned on Labour what this is actually doing to our country, yes they are very late to the party.

It is NOTHING at all to do with racism, it’s so tedious to have to explain this to tone deaf posters even now, and everything to do with the financial reality.

Labour have finally seen the maths. That’s the reality, and the consequences to living standards.

The impact it is having on our society with millions of people being absorbed annually onto a small island is stark, and the very fabric of our nation is under severe strain, our society deserves and expects a degree of control and accountability.

We can not house and feed the world regardless of what the far left think in typical deluded fashion.

🙄

I'm from Bradford and went to school in Manningham and I don't know wtf you think you're proving by repeatedly saying this but I suspect it's horseshit.

You made those choices though.