To think forced starvation is just plain evil!

[Farticus101]

On the BBC today. The UN has condemned using man made starvation as a war tactic. Surely we can come to a general consensus that whatever you think about the conflict, Israel's actions here are just plain evil?

www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/11/there-is-suffering-everywhere-you-look-says-mother-of-emaciated-baby-girl-trapped-in-gaza

What is “bullshit” about the hostages exactly?

I think the YABUs is about where the blame lies about starvation rather than saying it’s ok to starve people.

This is a very difficult situation because in the one hand nobody wants to see innocent children suffering. But on the other hand, simply prolonging the fight by being soft, having ceasefires etc, is much worse in the long run.

It's what Israel has been doing ever since its inception, and it's what has caused thousands of deaths on both sides. Thousands of innocent deaths.

It sounds terrible to say, but at this point I think the only way forward is for Israel to win decisively. Historically this was always how peace and new hope blossomed. When one side lost and acknowledged its defeat. Germany and Japan are prime examples.

After WWI there was only an armistice, ie ceasefire. That paved the way for WWII and the many millions who died in those terrible years. After WWII, when Germany was routed, they looked to the future. Nazism was by and large eradicated, and Germany was rebuilt as a tolerant, peaceful and prosperous nation. Ditto for Japan.

When the people of Gaza realise this is a defeat and surrender (and hand back the hostages), that will be the moment they can start healing and rebuilding. It's just sad that their own government - Hamas - cares so little about them and are willing to fight to the last man.

‘Blowing people up’ is not deliberate and stated genocide.

A war in which both sides have armies is not the same as an unrecognised state without an army being pulverised by weapons sourced from all over the world including illegal weapons such as white phosphorus.

This is what makes it such a difficult subject to engage in. People making shocking little sound bites in place of actual debate

Starvation has always been a tactic of warfare, you get a lot less turnover in your own army if you can starve the opposition into defeat. It's a classic siege tactic, cutoff the enemy's supplies and wait them out.

Whilst it is obviously not a pleasant thing to be on the receiving end, it causes less loss of life overall. War is unavoidable, has existed as long as human society has existed, and will continue to exist for as long as we do.

Arguably it's better to limit the loss of life on one side given that the opponents will die one way or the other anyway. That's the situation in the Middle East anyway, Israel won't stop until the Palestinians have been eradicated.

It's fine to believe that it's the Israelis who are in the wrong but the point is all we can do is express an opinion as to how the deaths should be spread. Do you want them to be spread evenly or do you want one side to suffer more losses than the other?

There's a lot of wishful thinking along the lines of "just stop fighting and killing" but that's not realistic when two sides who don't believe the other has a right to exist on what they believe to be their territory.

Oh please, Arabs have hated Jews for millennia, loooong before 1948 and they invaded Israel on day 1 of Israel being (fairly and legally) created. They were always going to hate any Jewish state. It’s not about geography it’s about religion and the Jews are fed up of being exiled, and if they didn’t defend themselves they’d be obligated from existence.

People REALLY love to blame the Jews for everything don’t they? Anything bad that happens pin it in the Jews - even Islamic terrorist groups who hate women and gay people are the fault of the liberal Jewish state

Israel wants all of them dead.

Really? You seem to think "Hamas" and "Palestinians" means the same thing. Odd. I thought the argument was that the poor Palestinian civilians are suffering for the crimes of Hamas even though there’s nothing they can do about it, and that they should be seen as victims of Hamas. I’ve certainly seen that argument put forward numerous times on this and other forums.

If you’re saying Israel wants all Palestinians dead, they’re doing a very poor job of it. If they really wanted them all dead they could have got much closer to that aim over the past year if they had chosen to, e.g. not bothered to inform civilians which areas were going to come under bombardment.

But you don’t care that Hamas has repeatedly said they want all Jews dead (as stated in their founding charter), right?

Nothing is wrong with me. Whether the same can be said for you is unclear.

Wrong on both counts. It's neither genocide nor justification.

And just by the way, when someone vows to fight you to to the death, what other choice do you have but to accept their terms? You don't have the luxury of not doing anything because they'll keep coming at you until one of you two is dead. Wouldn't you rather it was them rather than you?

Well said. I think people who think Hamas want a liberal free state of those pesky Jews would just bugger off, are deluded. It would be like Afghanistan. The refusal to see the raging Nazi-like hatred of Jews from Palestine and other Arab states is quite alarming

Eh? I mean, I don’t think Ukraine wanted to go war… having an army available doesn’t stop something being a genocide. The intent is there. Again, it’s like you think it’s sport-like Russia and Ukraine are wrestling and both chose to go head to head.

That wasn’t what I asked but it’s interesting that you dodged the questions.

War crimes are always been committed in conflict and always will be - and have been on both sides in the Israel Gaza conflict. Our own military certainly committed horrific crimes in living memory. Why people expect only the IDF to behave perfectly is beyond me and little to do with the fact Israel still needs to defend itself.

Or perhaps a direct question such as OPs is too hard to face up to and admit

You asked a direct question and by your own standards @Elizacat answered it

Completely agree with this. I really feel for the many Jewish people who are probably horrified by this and its needs to be clear it's the state of Israel doing this, not Jewish people. Jewish people are not all responsible for the actions of the state of Israel. By the same virtue plenty of Muslims and people in Gaza don't agree with the way Hamas operate, I think there's a common misconception they all support Hamas.

Israeli children too?

Who is Hamas then?
And Hamas IS a terrorist group. Not a poor one or a stupid one. The work, infrastructure and planning it took to pull off October 7th was not the work of a few poor vulnerable people. This viewpoint of “poor Palestinians” really does have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Is the destruction of homes and theft of land “defence” in your view? Genuine question

It’s not political to mourn the murder and rapes of your people

This war, like every other war is about money, power, land and resources. Race and religion are just useful tools that the people who benefit use to justify their actions. War is simply about greed and that human trait isn't going anywhere.

People love their echo chambers don’t they!

Hamas are terrorists. Why wouldn’t you want terrorists to surrender?

What do you thing would happen in Israel laid down their arms?

Israel has already won decisively. They just want to make Gaza completely uninhabitable for the Palestinians. What does a post-surrender Gaza look like for the Palestinians under an ultra right-wing Messianic government?

I think some people are using their brains to look at how the question is phrased and the nuances around the war and not just answering the question on a literal basis.

I feel sorry for anyone with such a negative opinion of human nature that they would seriously think 21% of Mumsnet users seeing this thread think starving babies & children is ok.

It seems obvious to me people are saying the title of the thread isn’t reasonable.