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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think forced starvation is just plain evil!

564 replies

Farticus101 · 11/05/2025 07:42

On the BBC today. The UN has condemned using man made starvation as a war tactic. Surely we can come to a general consensus that whatever you think about the conflict, Israel's actions here are just plain evil?

www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/11/there-is-suffering-everywhere-you-look-says-mother-of-emaciated-baby-girl-trapped-in-gaza

OP posts:
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27
Thegreyhound · 11/05/2025 10:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

JandamiHash · 11/05/2025 10:12

If people can’t see Gazans are being stolen from to find and feed the very wealthy terrorists who govern them, I don’t really know what else to say. How do people think Hamas are funded? Bake sales?

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 11/05/2025 10:12

The outrage about the use of starvation is completely justified and it obviously shouldn't be used in this modern day.

But it is ignorant and concerning how many people leap from “Israel's government is wrong” to “Israel shouldn’t exist” or “Just give it back.”

That’s a dangerous oversimplification and erases centuries of Jewish history in the region.

Jews have lived in the Middle East and North Africa for over 2500 years. In places like Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon — long before the modern state of Israel was created in 1948.

In the years following Israel’s creation, over 850,000 Jews were expelled and fled from Arab countries (between 1948 and the 1970s). Many of them had lived in these places for generations, some even for over a millennium. Their property was confiscated, their citizenship revoked, and they were never offered the “right of return.”

These Jewish refugees didn’t have international attention. The vast majority of them were just absorbed into Israel, despite it being a tiny and struggling new state.

So Israel isn't composed of European Jews (“Ashkenazim”) who came after the Holocaust. In fact, about half of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi Jews from Middle Eastern and North African backgrounds. Many of them have no ancestral link to Europe at all.

When people say “give it back,” where are they suggesting these Jews go? Should someone with Iraqi or Lebanese Jewish heritage abandon their home and identity and move to Sheffield?

The current Israeli government is committing inexcusable war crimes. And Hamas is a violent, authoritarian force that brutalizes its own people. In fact, Palestinians in Gaza have been protesting Hamas and been killed for it but you dont see this covered in mainstream media.

This is not a simple case of white colonialism. It's not a black-and-white “oppressor vs. oppressed” story. It is a long, painful, and politically manipulated conflict from BOTH perspectives.

Antisemitism has been weaponized across the region, not just in Europe.
Criticise Israel’s policies? Absolutely. Oppose occupation and collective punishment? Please do. But slogans like "from the river to the sea" or calls to dismantle Israel entirely erase the histories of millions of non-European Jews.

It is basically calling for a group of people to just disappear. People who have never lived in Europe and have no familial links. And if you think those Arab countries have now changed their minds and would welcome those Jews back, you are utterly delusional.

We can acknowledge and hold space for the Palestinian people whilst not denying that Hamas are terrorists and there's a history of Jewish people actually in that region for thousands of years.

The normal Jews and Palestinians have made it clear they don't want a one state solution. There obviously needs to be something done to ensure human rights on both sides, but just dismantling the Israeli government and opening the borders would just mean (as PP said) a bloodbath.

ThereIsThunderInOurHearts · 11/05/2025 10:12

JandamiHash · 11/05/2025 08:27

Can I ask what you think would happen is Israel was no longer able to defend itself?

Israel isn't defending itself. It is mass murdering innocent people - including the deliberate targeting of children, babies, pregnant women, aid workers, health workers, charity workers, volunteers, food outlets, maternity wards, hospitals, schools, cutting off all water, all food and blocking all aid...IT IS NOT SELF-DEFENCE. IT IS GENOCIDE.

Thegreyhound · 11/05/2025 10:14

JandamiHash · 11/05/2025 10:06

October 7th hardly happened out of nowhere.

You are disgusting.

October 7th did not erupt out of nowhere.
Read the rest of my post. Unlike you, I don’t seek to defend violent actions.

Joyunlimited · 11/05/2025 10:15

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 11/05/2025 10:12

The outrage about the use of starvation is completely justified and it obviously shouldn't be used in this modern day.

But it is ignorant and concerning how many people leap from “Israel's government is wrong” to “Israel shouldn’t exist” or “Just give it back.”

That’s a dangerous oversimplification and erases centuries of Jewish history in the region.

Jews have lived in the Middle East and North Africa for over 2500 years. In places like Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon — long before the modern state of Israel was created in 1948.

In the years following Israel’s creation, over 850,000 Jews were expelled and fled from Arab countries (between 1948 and the 1970s). Many of them had lived in these places for generations, some even for over a millennium. Their property was confiscated, their citizenship revoked, and they were never offered the “right of return.”

These Jewish refugees didn’t have international attention. The vast majority of them were just absorbed into Israel, despite it being a tiny and struggling new state.

So Israel isn't composed of European Jews (“Ashkenazim”) who came after the Holocaust. In fact, about half of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi Jews from Middle Eastern and North African backgrounds. Many of them have no ancestral link to Europe at all.

When people say “give it back,” where are they suggesting these Jews go? Should someone with Iraqi or Lebanese Jewish heritage abandon their home and identity and move to Sheffield?

The current Israeli government is committing inexcusable war crimes. And Hamas is a violent, authoritarian force that brutalizes its own people. In fact, Palestinians in Gaza have been protesting Hamas and been killed for it but you dont see this covered in mainstream media.

This is not a simple case of white colonialism. It's not a black-and-white “oppressor vs. oppressed” story. It is a long, painful, and politically manipulated conflict from BOTH perspectives.

Antisemitism has been weaponized across the region, not just in Europe.
Criticise Israel’s policies? Absolutely. Oppose occupation and collective punishment? Please do. But slogans like "from the river to the sea" or calls to dismantle Israel entirely erase the histories of millions of non-European Jews.

It is basically calling for a group of people to just disappear. People who have never lived in Europe and have no familial links. And if you think those Arab countries have now changed their minds and would welcome those Jews back, you are utterly delusional.

We can acknowledge and hold space for the Palestinian people whilst not denying that Hamas are terrorists and there's a history of Jewish people actually in that region for thousands of years.

The normal Jews and Palestinians have made it clear they don't want a one state solution. There obviously needs to be something done to ensure human rights on both sides, but just dismantling the Israeli government and opening the borders would just mean (as PP said) a bloodbath.

A welcome injection of history and sense.

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 11/05/2025 10:16

I’m fine with it. Seems entirely reasonable to me.
🙄

No one is going to disagree with you, @Farticus101

thepariscrimefiles · 11/05/2025 10:17

hummousnothamas · 11/05/2025 08:39

That’s how I felt about those, the many of those, who said Israeli children, women and men deserved the atrocities of October 7th, and/or and had brought it on themselves.
What else could poor Hamas have done, they intoned.

Edited

Did anyone post on here after October 7th and say that the men, women and children who were murdered, tortured or taken hostage deserved it? I very much doubt it. The world was in shock about the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust. It was utterly indefensible.

However, what is happening in Gaza at the moment also cannot be defended. It is tragic and heartbreaking to see the footage, particularly of small children. Using starvation as a weapon of war is a war crime.

Israel has won. Gaza is in ruins. The extreme right-wing Israeli Government does not care about the hostages. There are daily protests by Jewish Israelis against what their government is doing.

Langdale3 · 11/05/2025 10:17

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 11/05/2025 10:12

The outrage about the use of starvation is completely justified and it obviously shouldn't be used in this modern day.

But it is ignorant and concerning how many people leap from “Israel's government is wrong” to “Israel shouldn’t exist” or “Just give it back.”

That’s a dangerous oversimplification and erases centuries of Jewish history in the region.

Jews have lived in the Middle East and North Africa for over 2500 years. In places like Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon — long before the modern state of Israel was created in 1948.

In the years following Israel’s creation, over 850,000 Jews were expelled and fled from Arab countries (between 1948 and the 1970s). Many of them had lived in these places for generations, some even for over a millennium. Their property was confiscated, their citizenship revoked, and they were never offered the “right of return.”

These Jewish refugees didn’t have international attention. The vast majority of them were just absorbed into Israel, despite it being a tiny and struggling new state.

So Israel isn't composed of European Jews (“Ashkenazim”) who came after the Holocaust. In fact, about half of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi Jews from Middle Eastern and North African backgrounds. Many of them have no ancestral link to Europe at all.

When people say “give it back,” where are they suggesting these Jews go? Should someone with Iraqi or Lebanese Jewish heritage abandon their home and identity and move to Sheffield?

The current Israeli government is committing inexcusable war crimes. And Hamas is a violent, authoritarian force that brutalizes its own people. In fact, Palestinians in Gaza have been protesting Hamas and been killed for it but you dont see this covered in mainstream media.

This is not a simple case of white colonialism. It's not a black-and-white “oppressor vs. oppressed” story. It is a long, painful, and politically manipulated conflict from BOTH perspectives.

Antisemitism has been weaponized across the region, not just in Europe.
Criticise Israel’s policies? Absolutely. Oppose occupation and collective punishment? Please do. But slogans like "from the river to the sea" or calls to dismantle Israel entirely erase the histories of millions of non-European Jews.

It is basically calling for a group of people to just disappear. People who have never lived in Europe and have no familial links. And if you think those Arab countries have now changed their minds and would welcome those Jews back, you are utterly delusional.

We can acknowledge and hold space for the Palestinian people whilst not denying that Hamas are terrorists and there's a history of Jewish people actually in that region for thousands of years.

The normal Jews and Palestinians have made it clear they don't want a one state solution. There obviously needs to be something done to ensure human rights on both sides, but just dismantling the Israeli government and opening the borders would just mean (as PP said) a bloodbath.

Great post, thank you

Joyunlimited · 11/05/2025 10:17

ThereIsThunderInOurHearts · 11/05/2025 10:12

Israel isn't defending itself. It is mass murdering innocent people - including the deliberate targeting of children, babies, pregnant women, aid workers, health workers, charity workers, volunteers, food outlets, maternity wards, hospitals, schools, cutting off all water, all food and blocking all aid...IT IS NOT SELF-DEFENCE. IT IS GENOCIDE.

Edited

That wasn’t the point. The point was that if all other countries stopped all aid and arms sales to Israel, Israel would not be able to defend itself against the countries like Iran and the terrorist organisations like Hamas whose avowed aim is to destroy it and murder all Jews.

Naddd · 11/05/2025 10:18

The fact that 21% of you think starving babies and children is OK says a lot about you.
And before you start with the hostages bs. We all know the israeli government don't give a shit about them either

hazelnutvanillalatte · 11/05/2025 10:18

Noodlehen · 11/05/2025 10:08

Have you a source to this please? I’ve been following this conflict way before October 7th and I’ve never seen that said or discussed before?

Here is the statement by top Hamas official Mousa Abu Marzouk from 2023. Hamas do not hold themselves responsible for protecting Gazan civilians.

https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-official-mousa-abu-marzouk-tunnels-gaza-were-built-protect-hamas-fighters-not

Joyunlimited · 11/05/2025 10:19

Naddd · 11/05/2025 10:18

The fact that 21% of you think starving babies and children is OK says a lot about you.
And before you start with the hostages bs. We all know the israeli government don't give a shit about them either

The fact that you could write this and clearly think it’s fine for civilians to be abducted from their homes and held prisoner says a lot about you.

JandamiHash · 11/05/2025 10:21

ThereIsThunderInOurHearts · 11/05/2025 10:12

Israel isn't defending itself. It is mass murdering innocent people - including the deliberate targeting of children, babies, pregnant women, aid workers, health workers, charity workers, volunteers, food outlets, maternity wards, hospitals, schools, cutting off all water, all food and blocking all aid...IT IS NOT SELF-DEFENCE. IT IS GENOCIDE.

Edited

You need to stop reading the BBC

So you think Israel is at 0% risk? Do you want to take a guess at how long it was before neighbouring Arabs invaded Israel after its creation in 1948?

hazelnutvanillalatte · 11/05/2025 10:21

Naddd · 11/05/2025 10:18

The fact that 21% of you think starving babies and children is OK says a lot about you.
And before you start with the hostages bs. We all know the israeli government don't give a shit about them either

It does not follow that they think starving babies is ok, it is probably a statement against blaming the wrong cause.

Pro Palestinians do not seem to care at all about human rights violations toward Israelis. They support and celebrate horrific acts yet expect not to be challenged on their false arguments in the name of an empathy that they themselves do not display.

Dumbledore167 · 11/05/2025 10:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Tryonemoretime · 11/05/2025 10:22

What is happening to civilians in Gaza is absolutely disgusted. But what happened on October 7th was disgusting, too - as was the recent manual strangulation of the 2 little Israeli babies by Hamas operatives. How could they look at those little faces as they killed them? That's pure evil. During WW2, Germany was starving. We'd cut off all aid. That's part of the evil of war. The difference is, that modern media brings war onto our sitting rooms. We see it now - and are rightly appalled. But a thought - there is nothing preventing Egypt sending in aid or opening its borders to Gazans. But they don't want Hamas sliding into Egypt and hiding amongst their civilians as they know what they're like. And another thing - if Hamas wins with their hard line Islamic stance, there will be no Israel left and hard line Islamism will continue it's march towards Europe.

Jen579 · 11/05/2025 10:22

What Hamas did was terrible. What Israel is doing is genocide. It's so sad to me that people talk themselves into being able to believe that one justifies the other.

Netanyahu is just another vile, vile man up there with Putin and Trump. He should have been putting the lives of those poor hostages first - but he didn't give a shit about them. Hamas just gave him an opportunity to fully exercise his narcissistic, megalomaniacal ways and take what he wanted, wiping out everything and everyone in his way.

bloodredfeaturewall · 11/05/2025 10:23

well 'scorched earth' is a term for a reason.
yanbu

JandamiHash · 11/05/2025 10:24

Thegreyhound · 11/05/2025 10:14

October 7th did not erupt out of nowhere.
Read the rest of my post. Unlike you, I don’t seek to defend violent actions.

Well clearly you do if you think October 7th was justified.

Im sure you’d be outraged if someone said “Well the starvation didnt erupt out of nowhere” would you not? Or do Jewish Israeli lives not matter as much as Gazan lives?

Emigrated2025 · 11/05/2025 10:24

ThereIsThunderInOurHearts · 11/05/2025 08:15

It is without doubt evil. The Israel government and army have shown the world what horrors they are capable of.

Not only does my heart break for the 2 million innocent civilians being starved to death, but for the Jewish people who are at risk of rising antisemitism because of a rogue government, led by war criminals.

There are no winners here. This genocide must end by all governments refusing to arm and fund Israel.

That rogue government led by war criminals is democratically elected. Their actions are absolutely the will of those who voted them, and their allies abroad, including the Mumsnetters who vocally support them. Of course they will hand wring, and DARVO to make out that that emaciated child is their abuser.

The only additional action the government of Israel wants, is that you would ignore this and let them get on with it in peace.

Elizacat · 11/05/2025 10:24

It doesn’t matter how many times people say “October 7th”, there is no justification whatsoever for what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Netanyahu and his government are a bunch of psychopaths.

JandamiHash · 11/05/2025 10:25

Joyunlimited · 11/05/2025 10:15

A welcome injection of history and sense.

Agreed

Honestly I think some people think a load of Jews just decided one day “Let’s be evil” and Israel was created. People need to widen what they read.

NeedToKnow101 · 11/05/2025 10:27

Can we trust the media and ‘Hamas Health Ministry’ to ‘report’ this honestly?

To think forced starvation is just plain evil!
To think forced starvation is just plain evil!
UncertainPerson · 11/05/2025 10:30

It’s utterly indefensible. With plans to control Gaza and move civilians being announced last week this looks like a major escalation and in my view another step towards ethnic cleansing.