Is awareness of menopause and its horrific to start backfiring on us ?

[Bobbyewingshowerscene]

Is the current awareness and better understanding of menopause and its ruddy awfulness going to start backfiring on us on the workplace?
Undermining faith in the competency of women in their 40s and 50s? because there is better understanding of how the body, hormones, sleep, mood, ability to focus, mental health are affected?

Not dissimilar to how employers have historically (and I would argue still currently) viewed mothers/ women of child bearing age- for concerns about future mat leave/ child care issues/ sick days etc.

Is it an unfair irony that promoting more information about the menopause and its negative effects, and this being more publicly understood, is going to set us back to being seen as less capable than our male counterparts?

I have been quite uncomfortable with some of the menopause stuff lately, and I think this is why.

There are all kinds of issues that people can struggle with health wise in their jobs, some are age related, some are sex related, many are neither.

Pregnancy and infancy are really unique, IMO, in terms of needing a specialist solution. Women need some time off, and I would argue babies and society need them to have time with their infants.

But menopause? It doesn't have anything like the same effects on all. Plenty of women have minor symptoms, or ones that don't really affect them at work. Many others find they are able to adapt, just like many people adapt to having to work with other health issues.

I don't really see why it should be highlighted any more than any other health issues workers may have. And because it is, I do think it tends to paint women as problematic workers in a way that is not the case with men, and that's inaccurate.

the more we make out that post-partum women are some kind of "wilting flowers", the more we are understandably going to put off employers

I don't really see why pregnancy & childbirth should be highlighted any more than any other health issues workers may have.

Sound reasonable to you? The same arguments have certainly been made against every maternity concession that has been won.

I didn't have children, partly because I was in the cohort of women still proving that we can do as well or better than men in business.

Women of my age and a little younger made a big point of getting straight back to work - and were celebrated for it. Again, this was because we had to demonstrate that we wouldn't wuss out of our oh-so-important business obligations just because of pesky female reproduction. Two of my friends actually took meetings on the phone during delivery.

Points made, the next part of the task was to show that, now The Big Men understood that female bodies are just as useful, they perhaps ought to make those concessions for reproductive functionality.

We failed to do the same for things like endometriosis and PCOS. As an off-the-cuff generalisation, this is because men do want kids but don't want women with blood & pain.

However, men are more than twice as likely to suffer heart disease. Workplace concessions for their coronaries, bypass operations and lifestyle changes are granted without a murmur. So there's more scope here.

My generation and younger sisters have already done the soldiering through menopause to prove a point, and have suffered often life-destroying consequences. You lot can't hand this baton to us like before: we've finished work and menopause. You need to do it for yourselves and your daughters. Get those adjustments made, written into ring-fenced law, and stay healthy through your final working decades.

Or don't. But if you don't, you're beyond stupid. It would be self-harm for yourselves and all women.

Going through a major hormonal change and being able to talk about its effects on SOME women does not make women problematic employees.
In the same way, that the fact that women are the only humans that can give birth, does not make them problematic employees, unless you think it does?

Women in their fifties are already losing out in the workplace. Putting anti discrimination policies in place will eventually help us, just as putting anti discrimination policies in place wrt pregnancy and birth has done. We've tried pretending we're the same as men and it didn't do us any favours. We are half the population and half the potential workforce. We need work that works for us.

Yes, I agree, menopause issues (if you have them) should be handled the same as any other personal issue you need help with. It can't be assumed a woman, or even most women, will need this support, but I still think it's important to be aware that it can be an issue. My DH has supported men having treatment for prostate issues, so why not support for women with women's issues?

I tend to assume people are having an average kind of time with menopause unless told otherwise.

But we’re not all impacted by the menopause in the same way. For many women they barely notice it, some are impacted a bit and for some it’s a lot.

Also many men suffer from ageism in the workplace too.

I don’t want to be thought I’m a delicate flower in the workplace because I’m a woman in her 50s. I’d rather there was better protection for all over 50 in the workplace.

The thing is some of us have suffered with debilitating periods( eg to vomiting with pain levels ) since starting them and battled on- because we have to or choose to. Some women can and will choose to battle through menopause too. I think it’s dangerous to assume all women are going to be an employment nightmare after a certain age. Many won’t want it discussed and many will struggle and want to/ will get on with it. The idea that everybody in employment look at women over 50 and assume we’re all a liability makes me uncomfortable and is not something everybody wants. That needs to be recognised.

With women having attitudes like this, who needs discriminatory employers?

Do you think the competency of middle aged women hasn’t been undermined for ever? Apart from during WW2, when the women stepped in and capably ran everything.

You only have to look at how easily the misogynistic “Karen” crept into society. Used by men and women, and intended to undermine.

At 50 I was told I was “no longer relevant” by a twenty something who thought her age made her instantly more important than me.

I’ve lived through so much discrimination: being a female manager at 19 in 1982. Returning to work after having children in the 90s. Being a single parent in the 90s (heinous). Having a total bilateral hysterectomy in the 00s with its subsequent menopause. Being a professional woman at 62 in 2025.

Greater understanding and legislation can only help, even if some Employers are Neanderthal about it. It changed the face of being a working Mum back in the day, and it will change the attitude of working older women moving forward.

My flabber is ghasted.. Again are you kidding me?
Old school feminists like me have literally spent our lives fighting prejudice in the workplace. We have spent all this time telling you, you are equal but different.
Equal but different.
Please don’t put us back 40 years by saying we are equal but the same.
We are not the same. We bleed every month, we give birth, we breastfeed and we experience a massive change in hormonal life, when we are roughly 45ish.
It is not weak for some women to “suffer” from the menopause.
It does not make us “less than” to discuss those women who do struggle.
And for those of you are sailing through, seeing the strugglers as “less than” I fucking salute you.
I cannot tell you, as a woman, how pleased I am for you. I would not wish the debilitating anviety, the whole body flushes, the vaginal atrophy, and the general confusion on anyone.
so, so pleased (and let’s be honest) a little bit jealous of those of you who “sailed through it”, but yet again, we are not all the same

I most certainly didn’t sail through 45 years of periods. Menopause was a picnic in comparison.

I however don’t want the assumption to be that we’re all the same and every woman over 50 is going to be an employment nightmare. Sorry if that offends but last time I heard it’s a democracy and we don’t all have to be bullied into thinking the same- something some “feminists”need to remember.

No it doesn't, any more than men with male age health issues, or people with general health issues. I have two diabetic employees for example so I work to make it possible for them to get their jobs done while managing their diabetes. I have another who has recently had issues with vaginal prolapse and she's had some time off to deal with it. I don't actually need to know much about any of those things to be an effective manager for them. I'm personally suffering now from a serious health issues and needing time off, potentially for several weeks, its possibly related to my sex though men also suffer the same thing - all of these things are managed through the same mechanisms no matter who they apply to.

Having babies is actually quite different IMO, as it does have significant practical impacts in the workplace, and it isn't relevant to male employees in the same way. We have to build in special programs to make sure women can be paid during a year long leave. Any woman could potentially be taking several leaves of that type with no consideration of the timing from a business POV, that is a unique thing is terms of managing the needs of the business - it will often require a replacement which can be a very significant investment by the business if it is a skilled role.

It wouldn't actually be crazy for many businesses to say "I can't manage that or provide a salary while also paying a replacement" which is why we have programs to help with that, because we think it's important.

Some people do experience that. A lady I know felt she couldn't do her job safely. She chose to leave the job and later did something else instead as she didn't want to go back to the same sector.

Are you able to read? I was saying I was worried about discriminatory employers!

There are some serious pick me women on this thread.
Perhaps we should go back to the days when pregnant women were told to get on with it and that pregnancy is not an illness. A term my manager used when I told him I wouldn’t pick up and move several very heavy boxes ( long before there was any safe handling weight limits in force.)
A time when women had to wear a black or navy court shoe regardless of feet swelling due to pregnancy.
I still went into work after throwing up in the early hours. I still worked when I would be throwing up throughout the day. My colleague used to come to work and stand outside being sick every morning.
So yeah, I can criticise every woman who has any time off at all due to being pregnant.
Do I get a medal?
Should any woman who doesn’t do what I did get sacked? Should I call them all pathetic snowflakes?
Be thankful times really have improved for women.
I was told u had to return full time or nothing. No allowances made to work part time.

So where are all the DEI campaigns to raise awareness of men’s poor cardio health, which has massive financial implications for employers?

Pregnancy is entirely different.

You wrote ”I don't see how you could be relied upon to do a good job if you're concertedly menopausal.”
Thats not about discriminatory employers attitudes. It’s about yours. And it’s terrible.

Dunno. Ask the men.

Surely cardio issues are gor everyone? Isn't it one of the main causes of death for women now?

It's much easier to have policies which cover all longer term illnesses that can be adapted to particular needs, rather than have hundreds of different policies for every single possible condition.

Yes - my point is why do we need a bespoke menopause policy when one around (e.g.) cardio health would be much more useful?

For those making reference to brain fog, I experience a regular sense of cognitive overwhelm from all the demands placed on many women of our age that could be described as a fog. But at certain times in my cycle it goes beyond fog into mild cognitive impairment. It literally feels as though my brain is broken with a feeling similar to having the flu combined with a hangover. Often accompanied by migraine. HRT has certainly helped but when these days hit it is debilitating and a description of 'fog' doesn't feel as though it does it justice. I guess it just highlights that even with recognised terms the lived experience of us all can vary significantly.

Of course it is already backfiring. Equity and fairness means you can't claim you are an equal employee with equal rewards and then ask for special treatment, whilst others will have to pick up your slack. I am female and self-employed. We are a group/collective of both male and female sub-contractors. Bid for projects and work on them, not based on manhours, based on end result. All female colleagues are either menopausal or post-menopausal or peri. Not a word is uttered about menopause and special treatment. Not half a word - everybody understands it is unfair to make other people pick up your slack. Illnesses and bad days happen to all, men and women and then we say to our collective - 'count me out on this project for an x amount of days, no pay'. Crucial thing here is - no pay, i.e. we don't expect anyone to do unpaid work and 'take one for the team' because somebody gets brain fog. Nobody ever talked about it, but it is mutually understood. Also, our work is cerebral, so unsurprisingly no female colleague ever mentioned 'brain fog' - the risks of all of us losing a client is too high. Maybe this 'brain fog' and special treatment works in government or corporate jobs where money is no issue, but this menopause accommodation is not going to fly in small businesses or self-employed cooperatives or partnerships.

Yes I think in the private sector and certainly self employed it necessarily will be kept on the low down.
like sick leave - highest in jobs where sick is paid .