Is awareness of menopause and its horrific to start backfiring on us ?

[Bobbyewingshowerscene]

Is the current awareness and better understanding of menopause and its ruddy awfulness going to start backfiring on us on the workplace?
Undermining faith in the competency of women in their 40s and 50s? because there is better understanding of how the body, hormones, sleep, mood, ability to focus, mental health are affected?

Not dissimilar to how employers have historically (and I would argue still currently) viewed mothers/ women of child bearing age- for concerns about future mat leave/ child care issues/ sick days etc.

Is it an unfair irony that promoting more information about the menopause and its negative effects, and this being more publicly understood, is going to set us back to being seen as less capable than our male counterparts?

I agree with you both. And, actually, men age too. It is the 'brain fog' symptom that I am fed up of hearing about. I wrote a highly technical book during early menopause. I don't want people to use 'brain fog' as another excuse to not employ women. I suspect a lot of brain fog is due to too many responsibilities being piled on to women.

I'm post menopausal (and still work full-time).

The menopause does not badly affect all women and there are a variety of adjustments to reduce its symptoms, including HRT. A private consultation with a gynaecologist who titrated the HRT dose was worth its weight in gold. He wrote to my GP telling them what needed to be prescribed.

It's often forgotten that the purpose of the employment contract is to define what the employer will pay the employee in return for defined services, ie, doing their job. Whilst it is 100% right that reasonable accommodations should be put in place to support the employee, the job still needs to be done if the money is to continue to be available.

All employees have a personal responsibility to look after themselves so they can do their jobs. A good diet, some gentle exercise and cutting down alcohol can significantly impact menopause symptoms and I did not get off lightly. Mine started at 45ish when my DC were about 7 and 10 and DH was travelling a lot and I had a full-time job. It wasn't pleasant but I had no choice but to take the HRT and overcome it. I was done at 49 but the night sweats continued for a few years and were significantly worse if I had a glass of wine.

The real problem with the menopause is that it hits as women may be evaluating their lives. They may not feel families are finished, they may be regretting "settling" after 10 to 20 years of an unsatisfying marriage, their children are turning into vile teenagers and their parents may be aging. So many other things hit women at the time of the menopause, all things that cause the symptoms of depression and anxiety and I think there's more going on than menopause.

A generation or two ago, women's lives were different. They had dc earlier and the menopause and other life stages/responsibilities did not collide to the same extent.

I find the constant menopause messaging too full on tbh. My periods throughout my life were always emotional rollercoaster, so I am excited to see them ending!

I don't agree that this is internalised misogny at all and in fact if there is any internalised misogny on here it is the immediate shut down of women saying they had an easy menopause with responses like 'lucky you....' as if by stating this they are automatically lacking any empathy. I'm sure many posters wouldn't dare say they had a problem free menopause for fear of the backlash by other women.

That one's called Performance Improvement/Capability.

So because it didn't happen to you, women who it does happen to should put up and shut up? Lovely.

So where do women who have had this experience get to speak about it @PawsAndTails ? That poster was referencing a perfectly valid point that the conversation around menopause has become too unbalanced and all we hear is the horror. A bit like ageing; nobody really talks about the positives so is it any wonder so many people are terrified of growing old.

Can you not see that in your own way you are telling women to shut up?

I honestly wish I knew how to sleep better! That's the one menopause symptom for me that just won't go. I wish it was as easy as just "sleep well" insomnia is awful and really not always easy to sort.

You can say you had a easy menopause

yiu can’t mention that health and weight and mental attitude before menopause really matter because that would mean people being expected to look after their health or just wait for hrt

I couldn't disagree more. Being able to talk about it actually helps. Yes not all women experience the same, but knowing that some of these symptoms are caused by menopause can be hugely helpful.

being able to talk about them helps others if they experience the same. Knowing what's helped. Knowing they aren't actually just losing their minds - which in the past was exactly what happened.

my brain fog was absolutely awful. I actually worried I had early onset dementia- and when I said that to the doctor her remark was "that's a very very common thing I hear" but until that moment I felt alone. Thankfully hrt has helped, with some symptoms anyway.

And I'm glad I don't have to keep quiet.

My DSIS and BIL run a small garage
They openly admit they are mindful of taking anyone on who might later go off on mat leave and have had no end of issues arranging cover for child sickness with one of the front of house staff.

Same.

I fear the trade off with both options could set back and affect women in negative ways.

There is always a need for balance. But I may strangle my menopausal colleague who makes no effort at all, it's all "brain fog"! Her newest great excuse for ducking things she doesn't want to do.

But use it they will…
I guess I just don’t want any more ammunition in the armoury maybe..

I have thought this recently too. My employer has run a huge campaign about menopause awareness and it's very much a hot topic at the moment. I'm early 40s and I don't think even peri yet but I manage a lot of men in their early 20s and I'm suddenly aware that every time I stumble over a word or something daft that they're probably feeling sorry for me for being menopausal! I think it's sort of widened the age gap in a strange way.

While blunt lol my small business owning BIL and DSIL would agree with everything you have said.

Unfortunately, misogyny is not going anywhere any time soon. To be honest, there is still very little interest or awareness out there in the real world about menopause, even from younger women. I've been through the menopause, and it made me SO unwell, I can count on one hand the amount of conversations I have had about it with anybody except my husband at work or in real life. If you don't bring it up and appear reasonably healthy and keep soldiering on, I doubt anybody will care, or ask.

I Worry though, it could set back our hard won advances. As by saying we need regular concessions/accommodations we are naturally going to be seen as less reliable at best less incompetent at worst no?
And unlike a period of being signed off sick for example which has an end date menopause doesn’t work like that.

Where are you getting the notion that employers/the public actually care much at all about the menopause or factor it in much in their decisions? This has not been my experience, at all, in decades of work. Most women just soldier on and I daresay that won't change.

I work for the council and have the cushiest best package and conditions going, however, I don’t know of anyone ever getting discretionary leave for elderly parent care or spouse illness. That would need to be A/L or TOIL or maybe make the time up in the evening weekend from home- but not as a regular or ongoing thing - not at all

We had this conversation in my senior team a few weeks back. Lots of talk re menopause in our workplace and I commented I’m amazed anyone employed women at all, if we’re not having babies we’re going through menopause and painted as completely incompetent. My feeling was shared (senior team = 5 women with 2 in their 50s, 2 in 40s, one 30s). We’re all a bit fed up of hearing it.

I get it can be awful but many women don’t have extreme symptoms and have senior roles etc (I’m not there so maybe I’ll change my mind) but the narrative is very undermining in the guise of being helpful.

I think there is an risk of what the OP says happening
And yes very similar to what can happen to women of child bearing age
Much less likely in the public sector,mainly because they don’t have to make any money

I had no problems with my menopause,so I was ly

If midwives don’t turn up or teachers or nursery workers or heart specialists or bus drivers physios etc.. shit don’t get done.

Surely in order for society to function there has to be an expectation that outside of annual leave/mat leave and serious illness, employees are duty bound to turn up regularly and perform to a consistently
high standard ?

I didn't interpret their comment that way. I read it as dismissive of women who were having a harder time.

I can agree that we hear too much about the negatives and maybe that should be balanced with 'most women won't have such a hard time' and hearing some of the good things about being post menopause. I'm looking forward to getting there myself as the monthly up and downs I know I won't miss.

I seem to remember it was pretty similar approaching puberty though. All we seemed to hear about were cramps and hot water bottles.

I know I'd love to hear some more positives to look forward to because, while I'm not having a particularly hard time, there are some parts that aren't proving fun.

The gender pay gap - myth or reality - is very interesting but that’s for another thread…
Does your company HR dept have menopause policies at all?