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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is awareness of menopause and its horrific to start backfiring on us ?

201 replies

Bobbyewingshowerscene · 11/05/2025 00:01

Is the current awareness and better understanding of menopause and its ruddy awfulness going to start backfiring on us on the workplace?
Undermining faith in the competency of women in their 40s and 50s? because there is better understanding of how the body, hormones, sleep, mood, ability to focus, mental health are affected?

Not dissimilar to how employers have historically (and I would argue still currently) viewed mothers/ women of child bearing age- for concerns about future mat leave/ child care issues/ sick days etc.

Is it an unfair irony that promoting more information about the menopause and its negative effects, and this being more publicly understood, is going to set us back to being seen as less capable than our male counterparts?

OP posts:
LillyPJ · 11/05/2025 17:26

tigger1001 · 11/05/2025 08:21

I couldn't disagree more. Being able to talk about it actually helps. Yes not all women experience the same, but knowing that some of these symptoms are caused by menopause can be hugely helpful.

being able to talk about them helps others if they experience the same. Knowing what's helped. Knowing they aren't actually just losing their minds - which in the past was exactly what happened.

my brain fog was absolutely awful. I actually worried I had early onset dementia- and when I said that to the doctor her remark was "that's a very very common thing I hear" but until that moment I felt alone. Thankfully hrt has helped, with some symptoms anyway.

And I'm glad I don't have to keep quiet.

I didn't say anything about keeping quiet! The aim of my suggestion was to make people take menopause more seriously. If people start attributing all their aches and pains to menopause, it helps nobody and might make some people feel worse. Perhaps read my comment again to see what I actually said.

Bobbyewingshowerscene · 11/05/2025 17:39

Pickledpoppetpickle · 11/05/2025 17:00

So, I take it your experience of menopause has been at the milder end of symptoms and experiences? For some women it is huge, life changing, thinking they’re going nuts, not being able to focus, flooding month after month for potentially years…I mean, more than an eye roll. Flooding was a massive issue for me in teaching, cos I can’t just leave a class whilst I change pads, underwear and clothes. Leaving stains everywhere when sitting down. Literally dripping onto the floor at one point.

It is massively important that the menopause is not just ignored or brushed under the carpet. Employers have a responsibility to make adjustments and take it seriously. Pretending it’s a fuss about nothing seriously undermines the position of other women. We need women in the workplace, in all industries at all levels. Inevitably, this will involve maternity leave and dealing with the menopause. So work on normalising it, not hiding it.

It wasn’t pleasant tbf, and the timing was horrific on a personal level regarding my 2 of my adult kids and my step mum very poorly.

OP posts:
MrsMaryMooFace · 11/05/2025 17:41

So much hatred on this thread. Perimenopause has AT LEAST 37 symptoms, if not hundreds.

Those of you saying it's not that bad... It really is.

Maybe educate yourselves, it's unbelievable to me that women are posting on a women's forum, not supporting menopause.

EBearhug · 11/05/2025 17:59

Those of you saying it's not that bad... It really is.

It really is - for some, but not everyone. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have workplace policies to protect those suffering, just as there can be reasonable adjustments for any long-lasting health condition. There should be those protections.

But equally, it should not be automatically assumed that any woman in employment is going to have a bad time of it, just as some women have fairly easy pregnancies, and others have HG, SPD, pre-eclampsia and so on.

It is good there is more awareness of the range of possible symptoms and severity, but I think it has led some women to be scared of it before they get there, because there has been so much info, particularly about the worst problems. I am sure things will balance out in time - part of what has been happening in recent years is because it's a reaction to it having been a taboo subject for so long.

And I don't think this thread is full of hatred, just differing opinions and experirnces. If we can't discuss that on what is mainly a woman's forum, where can we?

dynamiccactus · 11/05/2025 18:02

Employers need to have a policy so they can support the women who are affected.

Those who aren't affected at all, or only mildly, don't need the support. But they might need support in other ways eg needing time off for a heart condition.

Everyone will have something wrong with them at some point during their working lives, even if it's quickly resolved. Menopause doesn't need to be treated differently.

Screamingabdabz · 11/05/2025 18:22

I agree to an extent op. I think older women are disparaged enough without adding this into the mix but I work in an entire team of menopausal women and I KNOW for a fact that we’ve all benefited from the empathy that brings.

Not even necessarily the hormonal changes, but other life events that happen around the same time - elderly parents, kids leaving home and making dumb choices (that parents inevitably end up mopping up), knock on health issues and endless tests, weight, loss of confidence, ‘bloody men!’ Etc…

In a team of older women, it’s been such a comfort to be able to share and not have to pretend we are all corporate career-hungry drones. (We still all work hard and go above and beyond though.)

I’m not sure what the answer is. The empathy is either there or it isn’t. Funny how some groups seem to have set the world alight with empathy to their cause. But suffering women? Nah, no one gives a shit.

GarlicPile · 11/05/2025 19:23

Bobbyewingshowerscene · 11/05/2025 08:46

I fear the trade off with both options could set back and affect women in negative ways.

Threads about prejudice against women always miss the real underlying problem.

Our workplaces - and most of life - operate to the assumption that everyone's a healthy male aged 25-50. Also that this male has the background functionalities of his life handled by someone else.

The working world was set up by such men, and still views them as ideal employees: they fit perfectly into the system created by them, for them. Everything else is seen as an aberration, a failing, a weakness.

Adjustment policies are one way of trying to even this up a little. Other ways would have to be a hell of a lot more radical. With luck, a following wind and a lot of litigation, we might end up with a system that facilitates everyone to work productively while taking a fruitful, active part in the rest of their lives, too. We aren't there yet.

Since no woman is the default male, every step of women's working lives has been fought for, resisted and litigated. My generation did the heavy work here, but the job isn't finished ... and 'the patriarchy' still resists it, looking for excuses to reward only the work of default males. Anyone who thinks women are now safely on a level playing field is a bloody idiot.

It's bloody idiotic to promote the idea that women should try at all times to appear the same as men (does a man with boobs, wearing a skirt, remind you of anything else?) The female physique differs from the male. Women have periods, pregnancies and miscarriages, give birth, breastfeed, have more complicated reproductive and hormonal systems requiring more medical attention, go through menopause, face a heavier load of social expectations including childcare, elder care and domestic duties, are more subject to sexual assault and harassment and more likely to suffer domestic abuse.

If you're a woman - or a man who wants women and/or children in his life - and you insist that women should attempt to fit the ideal male template if they want the same rewards as that male - you're a fool.

IcedPurple · 11/05/2025 19:31

Smoronic · 11/05/2025 16:44

I think it's worse than 'the change' I think it's replaced 'health anxiety'. As in "have you always been this anxious about your health" from the GP. Now it's "well it's probably peri". I.e. A simple way to ignore all women's health concerns.

Yes, I also hate the term 'peri'. It's basically added another decade where women are defined by their natural life stages, if indeed 'peri', which wasn't really a 'thing' until about 10 years ago, can be defined as a life stage.

I'm not sure if pathologising women's natural life cycle is a positive thing.

GarlicPile · 11/05/2025 19:32

IcedPurple · 11/05/2025 19:31

Yes, I also hate the term 'peri'. It's basically added another decade where women are defined by their natural life stages, if indeed 'peri', which wasn't really a 'thing' until about 10 years ago, can be defined as a life stage.

I'm not sure if pathologising women's natural life cycle is a positive thing.

It is 'pathological' if compared to a man's natural life cycle.

Bobbyewingshowerscene · 11/05/2025 19:33

GarlicPile · 11/05/2025 19:23

Threads about prejudice against women always miss the real underlying problem.

Our workplaces - and most of life - operate to the assumption that everyone's a healthy male aged 25-50. Also that this male has the background functionalities of his life handled by someone else.

The working world was set up by such men, and still views them as ideal employees: they fit perfectly into the system created by them, for them. Everything else is seen as an aberration, a failing, a weakness.

Adjustment policies are one way of trying to even this up a little. Other ways would have to be a hell of a lot more radical. With luck, a following wind and a lot of litigation, we might end up with a system that facilitates everyone to work productively while taking a fruitful, active part in the rest of their lives, too. We aren't there yet.

Since no woman is the default male, every step of women's working lives has been fought for, resisted and litigated. My generation did the heavy work here, but the job isn't finished ... and 'the patriarchy' still resists it, looking for excuses to reward only the work of default males. Anyone who thinks women are now safely on a level playing field is a bloody idiot.

It's bloody idiotic to promote the idea that women should try at all times to appear the same as men (does a man with boobs, wearing a skirt, remind you of anything else?) The female physique differs from the male. Women have periods, pregnancies and miscarriages, give birth, breastfeed, have more complicated reproductive and hormonal systems requiring more medical attention, go through menopause, face a heavier load of social expectations including childcare, elder care and domestic duties, are more subject to sexual assault and harassment and more likely to suffer domestic abuse.

If you're a woman - or a man who wants women and/or children in his life - and you insist that women should attempt to fit the ideal male template if they want the same rewards as that male - you're a fool.

Lots to think about there
thankyou c

OP posts:
Daffodilsarefading · 11/05/2025 19:42

GarlicPile 100% true.
Women need to stop being the default carers and dogs bodies.
I still see women taking far more time off than men for things such as childcare. Why?
You are doing a disservice to all women by doing this.
As for the menopause well everyone is different. Many, many women have had to quit working so anything which highlights the symptoms of the menopause is good in my book.
Some women won’t suffer as much as others just like some women have easier labours than others.
Some women get PND some don’t. Just luck of the draw I guess.

godmum56 · 11/05/2025 20:55

Theunamedcat · 11/05/2025 00:16

Well most Dr's deny it exists anyway apparently at age 50 with all symptoms I'm not even in permenopause because I'm still getting my period 🙃

I don't think that this is the view of most doctors, maybe yours is particularly stupid?

godmum56 · 11/05/2025 20:59

IcedPurple · 11/05/2025 19:31

Yes, I also hate the term 'peri'. It's basically added another decade where women are defined by their natural life stages, if indeed 'peri', which wasn't really a 'thing' until about 10 years ago, can be defined as a life stage.

I'm not sure if pathologising women's natural life cycle is a positive thing.

I started peri some 30 years ago. It was known about then and called peri, recognised then and discussed then.

Bobbyewingshowerscene · 11/05/2025 21:06

Daffodilsarefading · 11/05/2025 19:42

GarlicPile 100% true.
Women need to stop being the default carers and dogs bodies.
I still see women taking far more time off than men for things such as childcare. Why?
You are doing a disservice to all women by doing this.
As for the menopause well everyone is different. Many, many women have had to quit working so anything which highlights the symptoms of the menopause is good in my book.
Some women won’t suffer as much as others just like some women have easier labours than others.
Some women get PND some don’t. Just luck of the draw I guess.

I think Covid demonstrated your first point in a-lot of ways.
Where it was understood that the children of key worker females specifically had to to be offered school places as if not they might have given their up their jobs as home working husbands would not ‘have coped’ with the child care/ homeschooling and additional caring duties, while mum was not at home.

OP posts:
lljkk · 11/05/2025 21:24

All staff who become unwell deserve fair treatment from employers. I don't know why Menop needs a special policy compare to any other illness in any kind of staff.

to answer OP: the workforce shortage is too stark for employers to be too fussy to take on a seemingly capable person on off chance they may become inconveniently ill later.

My workplace is large (1500ish staff) & we have menopause awareness things going on. I try to ignore it because not relevant to me, I haven't perceived any discrimination based on a potential female staff member being age 40+ .

PawsAndTails · 11/05/2025 23:21

Smoronic · 11/05/2025 13:08

I have become concerned with how much 'peri' is chucked about. I'm hoping it's mainly a Mumsnet thing but I think it has the potential to damage the careers and health of many women.

At work we see constant reference to 'brain fog' which I agree is damaging. We don't have 50 year old men saying they can't meet clients for long because their prostate will mean they need to wee every 5 mins but we have HR telling everyone how women are suddenly confused idiots after 40.

Health wise I think it's great in some ways we have more awareness but I think we run the risk of "it's probably peri" being the tagline of GP services. How many other medical conditions are going to go missed because peri is the new catch-all explanation?

I find it helpful to have an awareness that I am in this stage of perimenopause and that body changes do come with it. Some days I feel like I don't know my body anymore, as far as the menstrual aspect of life goes, but I can put that in context.

On the other hand, this did happen to me, that symptoms were dismissed by doctors as perimenopause when it was, in fact, an autoimmune condition.

I have mixed feelings about all the current rush to HRT. It seems like almost everyone is on it online. Will we find problems with it in future?

PawsAndTails · 11/05/2025 23:24

dynamiccactus · 11/05/2025 18:02

Employers need to have a policy so they can support the women who are affected.

Those who aren't affected at all, or only mildly, don't need the support. But they might need support in other ways eg needing time off for a heart condition.

Everyone will have something wrong with them at some point during their working lives, even if it's quickly resolved. Menopause doesn't need to be treated differently.

Exactly this.

PawsAndTails · 11/05/2025 23:29

Other women dismissing the experience of some women with perimenopause is unfair. While most of us might be lucky, some women are severely affected and it's good to be aware of that.

It's like, when I give birth, I usually labour silently and painlessly until I feel the last two contractions and am suddenly painlessly pushing before catching my own baby into my hands in my living room. My mother told me childbirth is the worst pain you can have. To me, no it's not, it's easy and I'd rather give birth than have many other types of lesser pain. So does that mean I tell other women to get over it and stop being dramatic because I had an easy time? No, I acknowledge I'm lucky and that other women have different experiences.

memoriesofamiga · 11/05/2025 23:35

A workplace policy is all well and good, but who is ensuring its implemented properly and risk assessments are done? In my organisation, which is public sector, that's usually line managers, who are usually men. It's getting them to look at it seriously that's difficult, the same way it often is for pregnancy risk assessment.

I say this as a H&S professional who frequently butts heads with line managers who aren't interested in supporting their staff through a difficult stage - any difficult stage that relates to women's health. It's infuriating.

Rainallnight · 11/05/2025 23:38

Bobbyewingshowerscene · 11/05/2025 00:01

Is the current awareness and better understanding of menopause and its ruddy awfulness going to start backfiring on us on the workplace?
Undermining faith in the competency of women in their 40s and 50s? because there is better understanding of how the body, hormones, sleep, mood, ability to focus, mental health are affected?

Not dissimilar to how employers have historically (and I would argue still currently) viewed mothers/ women of child bearing age- for concerns about future mat leave/ child care issues/ sick days etc.

Is it an unfair irony that promoting more information about the menopause and its negative effects, and this being more publicly understood, is going to set us back to being seen as less capable than our male counterparts?

Yes, and beyond behind me why womankind is so keen to advertise the fact that we’re going mad, can’t think straight and feel miserable at this time of life. It’ll set us back years.

Toooldforthisbollocks · 11/05/2025 23:41

I think, as seems to happen now with any well intentioned initiative to raise awareness, menopause seems to be going through an almost “ fashionable” time with constant references in the media/ from celebrities talking about how awful it is.
Some ignorant employers may well use this as another reason for misogyny.
I agree with other posts that it should be kept in mind that menopause is not the same for everyone and not necessarily going to affect a woman’s ability to function in the workplace.
Personally, I had zero symptoms except for periods stopping which was a positive.
In perimenopause I had awful flooding periods and for the first time in my life developed acne on my jaw line so peri was far worse for me than actual menopause.

CaramelGhost · 11/05/2025 23:43

My workplace are very vocal about menopause. Support groups and external speakers. We are a woman heavy leadership business.

It is important. I do understand your viewpoint. I manage a few people effected by menopause and I am grateful to be have been educated in the impact, as well as having employees who feel empowered to say, I struggle with X due to the menopause. They are still incredibly resourceful and innovative employees and I need them in my team.

Being vocal about the effects shouldn't be a downfall

Rainallnight · 11/05/2025 23:44

Oh God, I quoted the OP. I’m sorry everyone. I blame the menopause 😂

shuffleofftobuffalo · 12/05/2025 06:00

Everyone becoming more aware of something like menopause is always going to have its pro and con points. Some women do have a bad time, but now the assumption will be that we all do and if we’re not talking about how awful it is we’re just covering it all up. We can’t win (as usual!!)

What I particularly don’t like about the increased menopause awareness is that it seems increasingly common for women to use it to neg themselves and/or use it to find an internal reason for externally occurring crap. think about how many posts you’ve read which include the likes of

I’m mid 40s so might be perimenopausal so that might be why I’m feeling annoyed about [insert truly awful thing someone has done to them]

I’m really anxious about [insert thing that would make any of us feel very anxious] but maybe it’s because I’m perimenopausal

I want to leave my job because my manager/colleague does [insert totally awful behaviour by manager/colleague] but it might just be that I’m perimenopausal…

BlondiePortz · 12/05/2025 06:10

MrsMaryMooFace · 11/05/2025 17:41

So much hatred on this thread. Perimenopause has AT LEAST 37 symptoms, if not hundreds.

Those of you saying it's not that bad... It really is.

Maybe educate yourselves, it's unbelievable to me that women are posting on a women's forum, not supporting menopause.

so can it be accepted not every woman has issues with menopause? some do and some don't so why do we all have to think the same about it?