to think most women are still doing the majority of parenting?

[cardycard]

Been on a flight recently. In front of me was a mother and two children. The dad was sat on the opposite aisle reading a book. She was feeding both of them their meal. Then one of them was sick. She was trying to help the child who had been sick and keeping an eye on the other one. The dad just looked over to the child was sick and said are you ok, then carried on his reading his book while she struggled to deal with both of them.

I see this everywhere. It will be women changing the nappies even when the dad is around, or taking toddlers to the toilet. In service stations, the women will be feeding the children while dad is on his phone.

At work, it is mostly women leaving early to pick up or if children are ill. Women are adjusting their work hours. in my organisation the majority of men do not even take their full paternity leave even though it is fully paid.

For the people who can't read, I am not saying this is the case for everyone. I am sure there are wonderful fathers around.

Even if the man is going along with it, he still has a responsibility once the child arrives.

There are plenty of men begging to have children but then do not like the reality and do nothing or leave.

Unfortunately true in my case which is why I’m now a single parent. My ex has the children EOW and holidays when he feels like it and when it fits in with his girlfriend’s schedule with her kids.

They are at their dad’s this weekend and I have spent the whole time worrying about if they are stuck in front of a screen watching unsuitable TikToks on what is a lovely sunny day.

In a couple of years they won’t be spending any overnights there because he doesn’t have separate beds for them and they’re getting too old to share a bed (fortunately they are both boys).

He pays very little maintenance and as far as I can work out he doesn’t work much either. I work full time, earn most of the money AND do most of the parenting.

He seemed like he would be a great dad before we had kids. We always split the housework. He was lovely and empathetic. Doted on the animals we had. Otherwise I wouldn’t have married him. When we had kids it all changed. I remember a tradesman standing in our kitchen calling him sexist. I can’t remember why now.

It’s enormously frustrating but I finally accepted that I can’t change the man and now just accept that he’s nothing more than a glorified babysitter. My life has become more peaceful since.

And the bond I have with my children is incredible.

Yep. DH loves the kids no end, wants the best for them and is a good dad.

However, I BF and co slept (he slept in anothetlr bed as had early starts for work), and there was an inevitablility about me becoming "primary " caregiver.
Kids seek me more when unwell or upset.
He's out of the house more.

We're both happy with the situation and it works for us

Default parent here, yes he works more hours than me, him full time me part time, but he does absolutely nothing around the house.
Even this morning he couldn't take son to his club as he was going somewhere, so I said i would do it, along with the rest of the kids, time came to go to his club, husband still hadn't gone anywhere, I asked if he would give us a lift (just drop us off) it was a no, he was "going somewhere".
So we walked there and back, came home to a kitchen in a pigsty and a husband that still hadn't gone anywhere in the car.
I made a comment about the kitchen and was told that he wernt my skivvy. He's then took himself off for a nap.

Sad thing about these kinds of scenarios is the kids see this as normal that dads should rest when at home where women often have to work and do everything at home

The real man shows himself when he becomes a father.

By contrast, every single man who had a child took their full parental leave where I work. I can’t imagine a situation where someone would turn down paid leave, it’s the most precious commodity. You must work with some absolute mugs.

I have to say it's totally 50/50 for us. Perhaps my husband even does more 😳
For example since I had 2 boys it was a no trainer whenever we were out and about he always took them to the toilet. I tended to use the excuse queues too long in the ladies. But he was fine with it.

Looks like the mugs are everywhere not just at my workplace

https://www.leavedates.com/articles/paternity-leave-in-the-uk

1 in 3 UK fathers take no paternity leave at all.

There is a widespread view that men are all predatory, violent to the extent that it is common to hear even a clear enhanced DBS "just means they haven't been caught yet". Men in caring roles are often viewed with suspicion.

Is it surprising then that many men switch off from caring roles. Women are rightly given long maternity leave but men are entitled to pitifully little paid paternity leave which shows how little value society places on men in caring roles.

@cardycardi don't know if this is worse but the kids are aware he's lazy with everything other than work. He doesn't realise but they can see it a mile off and most the time don't even bother asking him to help them with anything anymore, but that also means they rarely spend time with him.

Not the case for my family, we aim for 50:50 but in reality my husband definitely does more than me (including on flights!) Most of our friends with young kids annd most of my colleagues are also 50:50, or one parent may do more if the other has a more demanding job but that could be either the mother or father. And we are older parents!

Does this men switch off in their own homes with their own children?

That is really sad. Kids know that he is not interested already.

I'll bite but, traditional since when? For 95% of human history we've raised kids in groups with the fathers heavily involved and without the demands of modern life (school, jobs, life admin). There's nothing traditional in a woman doing everything for her children while also often working a salaried job while the father does fuck all.

We aim for 50:50 but only because I am not prepared to get mugged off by my partner. If he hadn't have stepped up he would have been kicked out. If I hadn't have set VERY clear boundaries then he would have taken the piss. That's not right though is it? He should have just stepped up.

And as for mothers gate keeping tasks, some may do this but the reason I have to do this is because he has read nothing on how to raise children, what they need, what is healthy...so no, it's not instinct but taking responsibility to know what to do.

We are slowly building back up now that he is doing more of his fair share but it will take a while for him to earn my full respect back.

"Does this men switch off in their own homes with their own children?"

Judging by many many post here some do. A lot of people would comment how crucial it is for mother's bond with their children and have up to year to do so. Men get 2 weeks.....are we surprised lots of men end up as secondary caregiver, and prioritise the provider role instead?

The state expects them to prioritise their jobs over their children....

Men are not interested in shared parental leave which is a lot longer than 2 weeks.

Hardly any dads have used shared parental leave since scheme was introduced 10 years ago, research finds

https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/article/1899450/hardly-dads-used-shared-parental-leave-scheme-introduced-10-years-ago-research-finds#:~:text=Less%20than%202%20per%20cent,The%20Dad%20Shift%20has%20found.

I was at a fast food type place (sort of like Nando’s the other day where two couples with a toddler each made a complete mess. They had packed lunch for the toddlers and there was cucumbers, bread, grapes etc strewn all over the table and floor and walkway. When they were done, I half expected them to leave the mess but the men just stayed sitting whilst the women cleared up the table and even got on their knees to clean the floor.

I see this kind of thing regularly too.

Often at children's parties too, the dads are just hanging around while the mothers are keeping an eye on things, keeping the kids entertained, sorting out the gifts etc.

Most of the fathers I know bar one do equal care for their children, but I do see on here a lot of men not pulling their weight. But then I remind myself that people come on here to complain and vent as an outlet so it’s not necessarily indicative of what’s going on in general society.

DH definitely does more with the kids than I do, and I pick up more of the housework and tasks that keep the household running. We are a team and it works well.

It can appear fathers are doing equal care but the mental load is still often on mothers.

"Men are not interested in shared parental leave which is a lot longer than 2 weeks."

They are in countries where they are not financially penalised for using it. In the UK most cannot afford to use it unless their employer offers enhanced benefits....

Equally it requires women to give up some MP. A few posters on this thread have used it.

From your own source
“a policy that pays virtually no money, is ridiculously complex to administer and requires men to take leave away from the mothers of their children didn't work all that well”.
"

Plus it mentions gendered barriers for men....

DH does the lions share of parenting (including flights after I lost my temper with dc a few years ago!) here but as pp have said I've got most of the mental load and he's not brilliant at housework. Who knows, maybe these useless fathers are all dusting skirting boards every weekend 😁

@Walkden And the millions of self employed? What do they do? Apart from lose money if they take extra time off. The whole leave bit revolves around employment. Not the self employed who need to run business as they don’t run themselves.