to think most women are still doing the majority of parenting?

[cardycard]

Been on a flight recently. In front of me was a mother and two children. The dad was sat on the opposite aisle reading a book. She was feeding both of them their meal. Then one of them was sick. She was trying to help the child who had been sick and keeping an eye on the other one. The dad just looked over to the child was sick and said are you ok, then carried on his reading his book while she struggled to deal with both of them.

I see this everywhere. It will be women changing the nappies even when the dad is around, or taking toddlers to the toilet. In service stations, the women will be feeding the children while dad is on his phone.

At work, it is mostly women leaving early to pick up or if children are ill. Women are adjusting their work hours. in my organisation the majority of men do not even take their full paternity leave even though it is fully paid.

For the people who can't read, I am not saying this is the case for everyone. I am sure there are wonderful fathers around.

I think my view is a bit contradictory. None of the Dads in my group of family and friends are like this. They all do share parenting and the kids are equally happy with either Mum or Dad. And when out together the kids go to either parent if they want something...there's no default going to Mum as standard.

I do agree there is also a huge group of people like your OP, though. I don't know why it is that one section of society has moved on and the other hasn't.

Having said this, I'm not sure I truly know many couples who are totally 50/50. And whilst I didn't particularly enjoy the early parenting days, I think that most of the women I know are more fulfilled by having children that their partners are and the women have a tendency to want to calm down their social life and be at home more than the men do. Might be controversial but its just my view.

I have one male relative who to the observer is the 'woman' in my scenario above...stays in a lot while wife goes out, seems to do more childcare and housework etc (think 65%/35% split, not extreme like the OP). It is commented on by other family members as being a bit unfair, despite the fact that it's the other way around for most couples in the family and that doesn't even occur to anyone to comment on.

I disagree. When you’ve grown and birthed a baby there is a biological need for mother and baby to be a strong unit, it’s an evolutionary imperative in order to keep babies safe and alive.

For most women needing to be with their newborn isn’t a choice, it’s something that needs to happen. Fathers can play a different supportive role, but the bulk of the bonding at this time should be between mother and baby.

This is a point when many fathers switch off, I think maternity leave (or as some men seem to see it “a long holiday”) leaves many men jealous even though they can now access longer paternity leave. It also sets the standard that the mother does most of the housework and parenting, and even when mothers return to work this doesn’t often revert back to the pre-baby status quo.

I'm a sahm so yes I do the majority of parenting overall since DH is at the office. But on holidays, mornings and evenings and at weekends we supervise one child each, and he always volunteers to take the toddler to the loo (I take the older child, who is much less work). He gets both dcs dressed and having breakfast in the mornings while I get myself ready, eats dinner and chats with the dcs every evening, and supervises homework, bath or playtime with one child while I look after the other one. Leaves work early one day a week to look after toddler while I ferry the eldest to a club, and attends every school play, assembly and parents evening.

What has made a big difference to be able to be so involved is having a short commute (10 mins by bike from a central London office). We didn't move out to the suburbs and inflict an hour + commute that would mean he would only be home for a bedtime story.

No i totally disagree that the bulk of bonding has to be between mum and baby. If you feel this way, don't complain when mum ends up doing most infant care because you've set it up to go that way. If you want a co-parent, you have to cooperatively parent from day 0.

I think part of the issue is the 'but a young child needs it's mother' narrative we see a lot of on here. There have been la number of threads about mothers who decide they want to take all the parental leave instead of splitting it with their husband and most people agree that they are fine to do this.

I'm not sure how we change this. More fathers working part time? We do have lots of fathers who work compressed hours at the council I work for.

Yes cooperation, but in the early days that should be in the form of changing nappies, supporting the mother, understanding that the mother/baby bond is incredibly strong and not seeing it as a rejection (which I’ve seen so many men do, and get jealous of the relationship).

Didn't you know, women are ultimately to blame for men's failings? The misogyny is strong isn't it?

You can see from the PP that there a lot of women (and I see them at work, mostly "indigenous" MC women) who think the dad should be like a skivvy, running around after them while they make all decisions and bond with the baby. Dad might get a cuddle while mum is otherwise engaged, but other than that, he should be waiting on mum hand and foot and taking her instructions on how to look after the baby.

They mock his efforts while he is learning. Criticise him to everyone, and then wonder why he loses confidence and eventually interest in fathering. Why? He is better off just waiting for his wife to order him to do something and then doing it or she will complain anyway.

I don't think many of these women have any special instinct when it comes to parenting. Many of them are pretty clueless about what it really entails because they've had very little contact with babies relatively speaking. There's no reason to think they'll know better than their men. They just have boobs to feed the baby if they so want.

They'd be much better off working as a team rather than playing the Super Mum and Main Parent over the long term.

The parent/baby relationship is incredibly strong. I think what many men see as a rejection is the constant criticism and "no do it my way" about things that don't matter. It isn't about the mother's bond with the baby, it's where the mother actively prevents the baby bonding with the father because she feels she should control everything at all times.

I haven’t particularly seen women mocking men in the way you describe.

I do think you’re being dismissive of the hormonal, psychological and instinctive need of the mother to be close to the baby and vice versa. There is a reason for the first three months of a baby’s life being referred to as the fourth trimester.

When you’ve grown and birthed a whole human there are a great many biological and evolutionary factors involved that usually mean that in those first few weeks, particularly if breastfeeding, the father’s role is very different than the role he can take with, say, a 6 month old, a toddler, a young child. Decent men understand this and step up. Sadly many men do not, evidenced by the many threads in relationships on this very topic.

I can understand that. I haven’t personally ever seen that, but have seen plenty of men switch off and allow mothers to be the main parent, then use weaponised incompetence to maintain their comfortable role of secondary parent, something that’s seen very often in society.

I'm a midwife, I see it all the time. On my last shift, a woman had a massive go at her husband for getting "shit on his fingers" while he changed a nappy for the second time. She made him stop and go and wash them and then give her the baby so she could do it instead.

About a week ago, a woman called me in her bay to scold her husband for holding the baby on its front. Baby was perfectly fine and content and I said as much (long as head is supported, nose and mouth are clear). She expected that I'd also tell him off and make him put the baby down or something.

I EBF my kids and didn't see any reason to push their dad out or make out I'm the one who is in charge and knows it all and needs more. We are both parents and that's probably why now, he feels as accountable and responsible for their wellbeing as I do.

Um, ok. It’s a pity some see this stage as pushing dads out, rather than acknowledging the needs of the baby and the mother in those early days.

Yes it’s important for fathers to be involved, that’s obvious. But in those early days, establishing breastfeeding, continuing the bond with the only person the growing baby has known for 9 months, seems a pity to dismiss those very powerful hormones and instincts to make sure the dad’s needs are met.

You can establish breastfeeding without controlling every aspect of infant care. If you feel like dad being involved takes away from you, then that's a psychological issue you have. Co-psrenting shouldn't make you feel as if you're not bonding with your baby. Just the simple act of not controlling everything and letting the baby's other parent have a say and some input.

Seems like your bond is extremely fragile if you need constant control to sustain it. Sad

You’re right, but so what?

Women are also likely to work fewer hours outside of the home.

Men are likely to do the majority of providing financially.

It’s not a big deal. Women usually WANT to be the primary caregiver.

MN needs to stop seeing women who look after their own children as being hard done by.

A lot of women do not work fewer hours (not sure what you mean by “outside of the home” as work is work, regardless of where you are) as unfortunately it’s not financially viable for many these days. Yet these women are still expected to be the “default” parent and pick up the majority of the childcare responsibilities.

So maybe that's why it's even more important we stop this idea that women need to do more "bonding" etc while the men order us takeaways and make us tea. Maybe they need to bond too. Maybe WE need to bond and our village order the takeaways.

Yes, most women still are doing majority of parenting but I think some of it is by choice/preference. I think it is unrealistic to shoot for 50/50 in everything because there are just things that more than 50% of women will want to do and vice versa. Most women prefer childcare to diy.

I haven’t commented on any of that…

You commented on expectations to be the default parent.

I agree. So many threads that start “I want to be a SAHM but DH…” or
”AIBU to not go back to work FT after maternity?”

Many women have their first child their priorities shift, they want more time at home raising their child(ren) and they want their partner to pick up the financial slack. This means being on your work phone or laptop on a holiday. This means more hours at the office to get the promotions and pay raises…

Women are to be blamed for their own failings same as men, same as martyrs

Having children is a choice no one is forced to do it

Yes? I agree with your posts. I wasn’t responding to you - I was responding to the poster who seemed to be suggesting that women can just leave the workplace/go part time, etc. Many women earn more than the men these days and a great deal of families rely on both incomes regardless of weighting. So, yes, I would agree that both parents need to parent equally in these circumstances, which are all too common these days.

My ex was fine at nappies and child wrangling, generally though would be watching whichever kid was easier stage wise i admit but I did the lions share because I worked pt at most, sahm until school age. You don’t know from strangers what their set up is