Sister angry I “yanked” my nephew’s arm and told him off

[Mmemm]

So I live with my parents (saving up for flat in London). My sister often visits with her child and husband.

We have a gorgeous 12 yo Golden Retriever who is enjoying his golden years sunbathing on the sofa. Anyway, I was in the living room on my phone when I saw my little toddler nephew go up to my dog on the sofa and hit him on the head with a coaster. Obviously it’s not heavy but I reacted as I am protective of my elderly dog, poor boy was dozing. I ran up to my nephew and held him by arm and said “we do not throw things at ‘Lucky’, how would you like it if I hit you in the face? That was very mean of you”. I took the coaster away from him and said if he can’t use it nicely then he can’t have it. Not a big deal. Pretty normal way to deal with it in my view. I may have been a little cross.

But sister is now demanding an apology. BIL was sat sort of to the side reading a magazine and snitched. Didn’t say anything at the time. Errr how how about you parent your child mate.

But apparently I was very overboard. I don’t think I was. I refuse to apologise on principal. Dog took it in his stride but you can’t be allowing shit
like that to happen.

In my mind sister can do one but parents have literally begged me as apparently she won’t visit whilst I am home 😂

oh come on. You don’t even believe that’s what this post is trying to say.

That's not a bad idea. In case of inadequate supervision, remove either dog or child from the danger zone. It's what I do when around people who are purposefully oblivious to the risks posed by dogs.

I never said that the child should have been allowed to hit the dog. I don't think anyone has suggested that.
OP asking a toddler how would they like to be hit in the face is the issue.

Sometimes harsh words are needed. Next time, the coaster could be replaced with a Sharp toy.

@Mmemm I’ve been in your shoes and done exactly the same and I’m a parent. My BIL & SIL always ignored what their DS was doing if there was someone else in the room. He’s a brat. There’s a reason why most dog bite injuries on children are to their faces. My MIL accused me of scaring my nephew when he was a similar age to yours by very sternly telling him to leave our elderly, deaf, arthritic dog alone when he was sleeping, to never approach him from behind or take him by surprise. I also told him the warning signs that mean ‘back off and leave me in peace’. I politely pointed out to MIL that if Ddog had snapped he would always be considered to be at fault no matter how much he’d been provoked or how many warnings he might have given.

Aye, I did read that she was hungover. Doesn’t necessarily mean she was having a bad day though, does it? A person can be hungover and feel a bit ropey and have a relatively good day.

She honestly sounds like she was a bit impatient with her nephew. Is it great? No. Is it understandable? Yes. We are all human and fallible. The child will not be scarred for life because his otherwise loving aunt was a bit cross with him once. This isn’t really that big a deal.

With all due respect, it would be more unkind to let the kid get bitten by the dog. I take more issue with the father sitting on his arse whilst all this unfolded and didn’t intervene. Then went and complained to his wife.

I do think she should apologise to her sister. However, I were in her shoes, I would not volunteer to babysit anymore. I would also make it clear that the parents must parent their child, and I wouldn’t be intervening unless there is an emergency.

Ridiculous

YANBU

Better a sharp, instinctive reaction to avert the possibility of imminent danger than to be softly softly (or unresponsive like the father) than to let harm happen.

A stern voice and an arm being grabbed is vastly preferable to being bitten and needing stitches. That would be a genuinely traumatic experience.

If BiL and DSis don't like it, they can concentrate on parenting their child and not let situations escalate through inaction or absence.

Older children with parents like this are a bloody nuisence in schools and group settings, and the parents drain the joy of working with young people due to their constant criticism and righteous whinging. We're now at the point of "this is how we do it. Are you sure this is the right setting for your child?"

OP says she touched nephews arm and was "a bit Cross". BIL reported that she yanked his arm and shouted. Impossible to tell which is accurate, although BIL is a nob for not watching the child and then winding up OP's sister.
I don't think it would be weak and pathetic for OP to give some sort of apology, its not that big a deal. I would say to sister something like, "I'm sorry I was a bit short with Bertie, I didn't actually yank his arm, I just moved him away from hitting the dog so neither of them would get hurt as Bob was just ignoring it. I was a bit sharp with him and I'm sorry". To be honest BIL sounds a pain, OP comes across as stroppy in her posts and her sister sounds very reactive. Best to cool it down.

I think some posters seem to believe that the OP needed to react in that way because of possible danger to the child. I don’t get the impression that’s why she did it. She was pissed off about the dog being attacked. I’m not sure it even crossed her mind to be concerned that the dog might react in a way that was dangerous to the child. So, although ultimately I think the BIL is mostly at fault here, the OP’s reaction was impatient and unnecessarily abrupt because of the dog being hit. It’s completely fine to be annoyed about this, but let’s not dress it up as some sort of teaching moment about the dangers of battering sleeping dogs.

I think your language was fine. For me it would be about the tone. If it was firm and controlled, fine. Uncontrolled and shouty would be too much.

I read it like you meant it that way - I would say similar but in an explanatory/questioning way. Like 'how do you think Lucky felt when you hit him? How do you think you would feel if someone hit you there?' I do think it's about the tone completely. Obviously wouldn't be particularly effective at that age if it's threatening! Much better to encourage empathy. The toddler would have been playing/experimenting (I wonder what would happen if I hit Lucky with the coaster...)/testing boundaries etc. Almost certainly didn't intend or think about hurting him.

Yes I agree. And sister who seems to be the one with a problem with it wasn’t even there! 🤷‍♀️. BIL who was there obviously couldn’t have had a problem with it because surely if someone was shouting at his child in an inappropriate tone he’d have said something? Or is he so much of a useless lump he wouldn’t have bothered?

I’ve been thinking about this OP this morning and am cross on your behalf. Their laissez faire parenting has put you in this position and now your sister is having a go at you! You said earlier that you’re the black sheep…..I’m assuming sister is the golden child? Seems like it’s another reason for people to disapprove of you! I also wonder if sister is making mountains out of molehills for her own purpose. Is she a bit of a drama llama? Also maybe she’s embarrassed by firstly her partners lack of parenting and slightly by the fact her toddler was a bit naughty….i know for a 2yo it’s not exactly out there behaviour but is she just been defensive because she feels she and her family are being judged? So she feels the need to deflect any attention back to you?

'How would you like it if i hit you in the face' is not the way to speak to a young child especially if you are wanting them to learn from your words

He’s not a nasty bully though. The only one fitting that criteria was you.

Exactly. Not to harp on but it’s sadly often the ‘happy breeds’ such as retrievers (big lab lover myself and have had them- for the record had the softest lab ever but didn’t allow my toddler free access to her ever for this reason) that are the highest numbers of dog bites recorded. I’m sorry for your friends son and no doubt he will probably have a lifetime of ptsd now, too.

You absolutely were not in the wrong, OP. Children need to learn, and passive parenting is a blight on society.
Ask any teacher.

That little kid is lucky he's still got all his parts.

Your BIL was being really negligent and your sister is an ass. The kid walked up to the dog and hurt him and BIL did nothing. A normal response would have been to physically pull him away before the dog reacted.

I've seen horrific injuries from just this scenario. I would have shouted. Don't like it? Consider the alternatives. That kid needs to learn not to harm animals and his parents need to supervise him much closer around any animals.

It certainly is all in the perspective. So maybe you should get some. Depending on what the coaster was made of there’s plenty of damage to be done when hitting an animal with it. And plenty of damage to be done to the child in a matter of seconds if the dog had turned on him after being startled awake. His dad was in the room and did nothing, then played off the OP and her sister to take the heat of the fact that he’s a lazy git and chose to sit reading a magazine while his son toddled up to the dog. He shouldn’t have let it get as far as the kid getting near enough to hit it.

It's luckys house. Not the nephew

I think she handled it perfectly

OP clarified upthread that the dog is docile and she didn’t think it would hurt her nephew but she admitted that you can never be sure. So yes, I do think there was a level of concern for the child as well as the dog. Agree with you about BiL though. At some point he realised he should have been the one to act and instead of owning it he set his wife and her sister at each others’ throats to take the focus away from himself. That’s just nasty.

Agree with PP, if the OPs behaviour towards the child was so terrible why didn't the child's dad bother to intervene? He sounds a right shit stirrer.

I dont like the wording you used
"how would you like it if I hit you in the face? That was very mean of you” -
thats mean to a 2/3yold who is learning to navigate the world and their own impulses. If you used angry tone and grabbed in an angry way thats also not good.
You need to physically stop them, yes, but gently and without anger. As an adult you are teaching them. Nephew may well know to to hit but that is not enough for little children not do it, they have to have an adult to (physically) help them not do it until they can control themselves. Yes, his father should have been watching him unless you were the one in charge.
I think your sister should explain how she would like situations like this to be handled.
You are both being unreasonable in your own way.

I cannot be doing with gentle parenting, sorry. The child was hitting a sleeping dog in the face. Even at the age of two he needs to be made to understand that he can’t treat animals that way and asking a child how they would feel if the same happened to them is a good way to get it across - it teaches empathy. Possibly a two year old is too young for the nuance of this, but definitely not too young to be told firmly that this behaviour is not acceptable and showing anger is a good way to reinforce it. Not every dog will react the same way and if the behaviour isn’t checked, or alternatively the parents actually start to parent their child, there’s a tragedy waiting to happen.

Why would the OP be in charge if dad was in the room ? It’s his child. OP isn’t a mum by default just because she’s female.

Showing anger does not teach empathy