Have women become soft

[peeweehill]

Hear me first ive just got in from having a chat to my neighbour shes almost 80 really sweet lady known her for years.
Well we was having a natter while she was waiting for her daughter to arrive (she`s going away for the weekend) and i said something how society has changed a lot and how far technology has come.

She agreed it was all for the best and how we would of loved it back in the day. She then said the biggest thing that she as noticed the most is that women are getting softer.
I said what do you mean she replied with we all used to be tough as nails now most are gone soft.
Before i could reply her daughter arrived she said catch up when i get home on monday.

Now im waiting for monday lol😆
It got me thinking have us women got softer.🤔
Some of what i read on MN i think she may have a point i think i dont know.
What do you netters think.

I think its sexist propaganda designed to keep women putting up with harder situations than they need to so men can have easier lives. Your neighbour is of an age when women were more under control of men, so did more than they should because they had no choice. Now we do have choices, there needs to be a new way to keep our noses uncomplainingly at the grindstone. So enter - shame. We're princesses. We're soft. We're weak. We're not good enough. Invariably just because we want men to step up and do their share.

No clue, no clue at all. Are you one?
if not, please zip it.

Depends on what you mean by soft really. Each generation will have its own benefits and challenges.
One things that is common across all generations is a feeling of superiority (obviously not every one does it)
In your example op an older person is stating how younger women are softer now and i know personally that some younger people may judge older people based on their perspectives and biases.
Its just what some people do.
Life is definitely more convenient now, but I'm not sure that it's easier than it was 50 years ago.

Wow, didn't read that thread. Useless rather than soft.

Do you know anyone in rl like this ?
I really don't.
Everyone I know in rl has vulnerable, irrational, emotional moments and times of real strength - both men and women.
I don't think MN reflects rl at all.

Do you seriously think you do MORE than your grandmothers’ generation?

I’m an early boomer, whilst some had an easy life, as in every generation, it certainly wasn’t all of us! Although there are different pressures on families now, many are far better off. Our DC, unlike us, who left school at 15 or 16 and got a job, have professional qualifications and careers. We lived hundreds of miles from any family when the DC were growing up, so no help there. Childcare was almost non existent, and like a lot of my age group, I worked, fitting in low paid jobs around DH looking after the DC.

We lived in a run down house, with an outside lav, and a coal fire for heating. That was in the early 70s. I’d take the washing to the laundrette when I could afford it, until we got a second hand twin tub from a friend. We eventually managed to buy a house, in a cheap area, then once I was working full time we moved somewhere better. I worked full time until retirement age, then carried part time, as did DH, even though he has poor health, to top up our pensions.

I think it's easy to be "hard" when you've got a tribe of women behind you and you don't work after you've had a baby. In my mother's generation (I'm late 40s) you gave up work when you had a baby. So did every other woman you knew. Your family lived nearby, so you had your Mum, MIL, sisters, aunts, friends round for help and support. Now, much more likely that you live far from family and go back to work after mat leave. Meaning women can feel very isolated, overwhelmed and with no support. I don't think that makes us "soft", just human.

I’d sign up for that version of womanhood!

On another thread a woman has just been called "brave" for spending an evening away from her months-old baby who was left with her MIL. That isn't brave, and thinking it is, is a bit pathetic.

I've been doing the family tree recently. Before the early 20th century, both women and men on both sides of my family (who were probably fairly typical of poor, working class families) typically grew up in dire poverty, potentially losing one parent in childhood, almost certainly losing several siblings.

Then they reach adulthood, marry, and the cycle repeats itself. They or their husband may die young, and they would lose at least 2-3 children in infancy to diseases that today would be easily treatable. They went into marriage knowing that they would give birth to multiple children and if they were lucky they would only lose a few of them (from things like 'marasmus' and 'whooping cough'). And they themselves were unlikely to live to a ripe old age. Even if they did, they could end up in the poorhouse (quite a few ancestors did). These people must have been as tough as nails.

So yes, compared to the pre-NHS, pre-childhood vaccination programme, pre-antibiotic generations, I think subsequent generations are 'softer' (including OP's neighbour, who will have been too young to experience most of the above). That's not necessarily a bad thing - I'd hate to see a return to such conditions.

Although there are different pressures on families now, many are far better off.

But statistically boomers are better off than younger generations. There will be some outliers of course.

Yes possibly. If you're stressed enough to make a post about a bit of pigeon shit in a child's hat, yes we need to get a life.

I don't think more manual housework made women tougher emotionally. You could meet someone and think they are soft but how do you actually know? What does toughness look like on someone you don't know?

Yes. We have so many women on here married to a man child and allowing horrible family members to rule their lives. I think we are all ground down.

What? I'm in my 50s. My mother worked full time. One of my grandmother's also worked full time ( my dad was even in nursery during the war) and the other part time.

My mum has no sisters and lived 300 miles from her mother.

I was back at work when my baby was small and her Dad was in the forces in the middle east. ( Gulf war)

It may have been the case for your family but certainly not everyone

My very working class tough nan wouldn't have made a post about this but she would have chatted at the salon when she had her perm done, or on bingo night, or to her cleaner colleagues about this kind of trivial stuff, or even sat on her front step with her neighbours.
They used to 'nag themselves long' all the time whilst having a fag break.
I think mumsnet is the modern equivalent to me.

I don’t know, my grandma used to get wound up about the most ridiculous things, either imagined friendship slights or snobbery issues (she was the snob) but she had survived far tougher stuff than I have ever had to deal with: the war, widowhood with 3 young children and no social security and being evicted and having to sell the furniture to survive, surviving as a single mother in a poor area. It doesn’t always follow that being tough means you have a sense of perspective about the small stuff, or that not having a sense of perspective means you’re soft.

I think the younger generation (women and men) are on the whole more able to talk about emotions and have a kinder way of parenting maybe. Obviously not everyone. But the generation of children must be seen and not heard, who disciplined children by smacking them etc are certainly not as common. I think being softer can be a term used to insult but actually it’s not always a bad trait

It really is. Thanks for the recognition!

Yes possibly. If you're stressed enough to make a post about a bit of pigeon shit in a child's hat, yes we need to get a life.

One of my relatives would stress about this. But she lost her dad young and had cancer twice, I don't think she's particularly soft.

Yes this idea that women didn’t work is a very middle class perspective.
As is the idea (seen in a post upthread) that everyone bought a house!

There does seem to be less resilience on threads on MN, but the women who just get on with it aren’t really represented.

Yes this idea that women didn’t work is a very middle class perspective.
As is the idea (seen in a post upthread) that everyone bought a house!

Not really, mothers of young dc in the workplace has increased, even amongst the working classes. And more people did buy houses than at a younger age. That doesn't mean every single person though.

@ Fearful and @TheCountessofFitzdotterel
There's casual whining, chit chat and complaining and then there's letting something unimportant get the better of you. When something this small takes so much of your time and energy, it seems to me you must have too much time on your hands. My opinion.