To say no to Daughter carrying someone else’s bag at DofE

[DrSeuss84]

My 14 year old Daughter is about to do bronze Duke of Edinburgh in a weeks time. This is the first time she has done anything like this. She is quite slim and petite for her age.

I read that they should only carry a certain amount of their body weight so have been super selective and spent a lot of money buying lightweight items and researching the lightest possible gear.

At the practice run a lot of girls had much heavier bags. Some were packing skin care and makeup and other non necessities.

she doesn’t know the girls in her group but they all know each other and are an established friendship group.

Tomight she got a message from them saying they had all decided and agreed that they are going to bring a bag weighing device and weigh each bag and whoever has the lightest bag will have to swap bags with someone else on the second day to make it fair.

it was quite a direct message in the tone of “everyone has already agreed and it would be unfair if you say no”

My initial instinct was ‘no way’ Everyone packs what they want but we didn’t worked hard to get your bag light only for you to lug someone else’s bag around for 11 miles!

DD she is worried this will have her outcast from the group and turn them against her making the whole two days uncomfortable and isolating for her.

I don’t know how to tackle this at all. What would you do?

Yes it is - but team dynamics are part of decision making.

Isolating and falling out with your team, is not a good idea if you are stuck on a project together - that is a key lesson for every child to learn.

Part of that is picking your battles, and where to draw your red lines.

I would suggest that the daughter absolutely picks a battle over non-essential items. She would be in the moral right, and the other girls will likely thank her later, when they are struggling and grateful to not have the extra weight. This exact situation happens each year, and people are always so thankful that they didn't take extra things when they get tired later on.

But picking "not sharing the load" as your battle? Because her mum spent more on lighter gear? That is not an argument that the daughter will come out well from. Simply because it is so easy for the other girls to paint her as selfish and not helping, and ruin her relationships in the group.

How she navigates the line between individual fairness and team cooperation/harmony are key lessons for the rest of her life.

Well not for a fact, no. But if my experiences of DOE as a parent are anything to go by, there was a huge drop out before the end of Bronze and most of those were kids who thought it would be camping out sleep over and not what it turned out to be.

My (now ex) DP's DD signed up for it and didnt make it through the first day. She packed her straightners. Even her (over indulgent) father thought that that was ridiculous but picked her up instead of making her face the consequences of her choices......

Stand firm say no

Isolating and falling out with your team, is not a good idea if you are stuck on a project together - that is a key lesson for every child to learn.

So you are saying that the OP's DD should cave to bullying because they make up more of the team than her?

Because that is the ultimate outcome of this. She does what they want, she suffers physically and they get what they want.

What lesson is learned from that?

The bullies learn that if they form a pack, they can pack whatever crap they choose because they can force someone else to carry it for them. The other kids learn that if they say no they get ostracised.

Not a lesson I have ever taught my kids. I am sorry that you think that bowing down to bullies is a good thing.

Honestly your daughter will be fine. Let her be a proper part of the team and muck in for a change.

Yes - sometimes you prioritize the group's success over fairness.

It is very naive to think otherwise. We all do it in our lives, and this girl will have to do it throughout her education and later career.

For example there will be many times in her life where she has to do group projects at work or in school/uni where she will be put with useless people, manipulative people, bullying people, Lazy people etc. where she will be given a choice, ignore the unfairness and let the group succeed.. or put your foot down and stand up for yourself and let the group do worse/fail.

It is hopelessly naïve to teach your children that they should always do what is fair for them, even if it means destroying their success on an assignment, or a group work project etc. It works in movies, but in real life, in the long run they will hurt their own chances, if they do this. People like this end up feeling morally superior, but being isolated and not succeeding as much as they could.

Teenagers need to learn this, and they need their parents not to step in and fight their battles for them.

Is it fair that a harder working girl in a group project gest the same score as the lazy girl who did nothing? No.. but would the hard working girl be better off if she refused to do more than her fair share and get a lower score? Of course not. Her pursuit of fairness would hurt himself. Will people take advantage of this? Yes - but that is life.

Choosing your battles is a much better lesson to teach children then always standing up for what is fair for yourself, even if it hurts you. Not sharing weight is a very bad battle to pick, because you will always be spun as the selfish one (even if you are right).

It.smacks of the MC British girl usually called something like Jemima or Penelope and her parents treat her like a little delicate flower all her life. She never develops emotional resilience and constantly drowns in rejection if she's ever told no.

Yes! 🙌

Tell them to fuck off. Carry your own bag.

Honestly 6 pages of hand wringing can be easily avoided with honesty.

I would contact the organisers and express your concern. The organisers should reiterate to the group that only essentials should be taken and that makeup and skin care can stay at home for a couple of days.

I would also tell daughter to pack a couple of heavy rocks just before the bags are weighed so that noone wants to swap with her (then discard after weigh-in.)

She could offer to carry a group item but say she's keeping her own bag. Surely part of the challenge is figuring out what is needed/packing effectively so these girls shouldn't be bringing piles of makeup!

I would be helping her write a message that says ‘that sounds good, as long as everyone packs as light as possible so we don’t end up carrying unnecessary weight’ and share the info about only carrying so much weight. That way she stands her ground but in a helpful way,

No, it doesn't sound fair, over packers girls can leave some things behind. And worse case scenerio, I'd tell her anything could be in that bag. Never carry something through security for someone.

I get what you’re saying and in an ideal world I completely agree…but in reality sometimes shit is unfair, frustrating and annoying and we have to learn to deal with those situations and emotions to learn resilience.
My solution to this would be to try and talk to these girls, and hope they see sense…but ultimately in a team work exercise sometimes you do have to just suck it up

Imagine if the D or E leaders had done an expedition like this before… !

Tell DD to reply:
Take less stuff if you’re too weak to carry your own bag. I’m not a donkey, and I’m not carrying other people’s stuff. I’ve got my own bag.

I wouldn’t suggest being a doormat. Ultimately they’re probably going to be horrid anyway so she may as well stand her ground.

Yep, or an extra litre of water and tip it away

Hahaha this reminds me of tiny underweight 17 year old me trekking through the atlas mountains on a college trip. One girl in the group moaned so much about carrying her bag I carried both our bags up the hill. She literally just had her water bottle 🤣.

I'm ex military. Everyone carried the same stuff in their bags. At the time mine weighed equal to my body weight. No damage done.

For one walk and one trip I wouldnt bat an eyelid about the dangers of it. But the principle!! Fucking cheeky 🤣

In my experience having the lightest bag means you get the tent too. The leaders will usually dish out the communal equipment according to whoever has the lightest load taking into account maximum weight for their height etc... It really is about the success of the group. I suspect the plan made by the girls will be overruled by the group leaders anyway. Pesonally I'd leave this to your daughter to solve. Forget about being deceitful and packing rocks - hardly a lesson in groupwork. And forget about running to the organisers as they'll have seen it all before. Far better your daughter had the confidence to state her case and work with rhe group for the fairest outcome.

'Thinking of others' includes packing sensibly so that you don't have to burden all your teammates with all your unnecessary stuff.

This.
Contact the organisers and forward the message on.
It is not the girls place to be deciding anything.
Recipe for bullying.
State that you have packed carefully so she doesn't return with a back issue and requiring physio as a result.

Right!?
I wonder if they’re so focused on teamwork when it comes to sharing the expensive skincare products around the group 🤣

I'd be tempted to advise her to message something like "great idea, as long as none of you are bringing a load of makeup or something! No way am I carrying anyone's makeup and skincare because they are that vain".

Haven’t read whole thread, but you set up rucksacks for individual bodies, so it’s not as easy as swooping bags.