To want Brexit be reversed

[BeKookySheep]

I don’t normally post about politics, but this has been playing on my mind for a while. I wasn’t super political before the referendum — just a mum trying to do her best for her family. But now, years later, I really feel like Brexit hasn’t delivered what we were promised. And I think we should seriously start talking about reversing it.

My eldest is 16, really bright, and had dreams of studying languages and maybe doing a year abroad. We looked into Erasmus a while ago, but that’s gone now. And the cost and hassle of studying or working in Europe is so much higher now. She asked me, “Why is it so much harder for us than it was for you, Mum?” And honestly, I didn’t know what to say. It hit me hard.

Everything’s more expensive — our food shop has gone up loads, and don’t even get me started on getting certain things for school packed lunches! Little things, but they add up. My brother runs a small business and he's drowning in paperwork just to send stuff to Ireland. And a friend of mine left the NHS because she felt so overstretched — they can’t recruit enough staff anymore, especially from Europe.

Brexit hasn’t made anything better. It’s just made life harder in so many small but important ways. And if something clearly isn’t working — and is limiting our children’s futures — why shouldn’t we talk about changing it?

We tell our kids it’s okay to admit when something’s not right and make it better. Maybe it’s time we took our own advice.

Would love to hear if others are feeling the same. Has Brexit made life harder for your family too?

We wouldn't have lost qualified NHS staff, nor would we have shifted resources away from Pandemic planning. So remaining a member of the EU would have been 2 benefits.

Lockdowns were not which is what the pp posted.

The EU free movement and single currency gave an unfair advantage to Countries with far lower costs of living, as well as lower standard of living.
UK wasn’t part of the single currency, and could have set minimum wage higher if necessary to offset the lower costs of labour from countries in eastern Europe. Chose not to. Also chose not to limit immigration from outside the EU, which we could easily have done.

I believe going forward there will be a backlash like there has been here, in the more affluent Countries like Spain, Italy, France, Germany and the EU will either have to change it's control over member states or lose members. While all this is going on, I believe the UK with it's own currency will prosper.

I think you underestimate the value that other countries see in the EU. Their ‘exity’ types are smaller minorities than in UK. I can’t see a Frexit or a Spexit (can’t think of a German equivalent but also think it unlikely to happen). Even Meloni isn’t pushing an Italian exit.

With 100% debt I don’t know how strong our currency is right now.

I can’t find your Brexit benefits in your answer, though. Could you highlight or repost them please.

A third benefit to staying would have been we didn't lose the EU funding for many of the community, health and charity organisations that were shrunk or closed down by Brexit.

From what I recall, the stop on ongoing pandemic planning happened around 2017, as a plan had been drawn up. It was political in fighting that was the cause of ridiculous directives and the extended lockdown. It should also be noted that the UK was among the very first to start implementing vaccines.

You recall incorrectly. Resources were shifted from Pandemic planning to deal with Brexit.

A plan had not been drawn up.

It will only take another member like Greece to require a massive bailout and the net contributors will have to take stock at how their own lives are being affected

This massive bailout you speak of was a loan @ARealitycheck. In fact a series of loans - being repaid. The way you have presented it is as if the bailout was a gift. Wanted to clear that up.

Lockdown was not on any planning. It was a flu response.

It likely wasn’t on other countries’ either. Until it happened.

Lockdowns were not which is what the pp posted.

I can assure you a lockdown was muted 18 years ago in pandemic planning when at which time we were planning for an influenza pandemic. I absolutely know this to be true because i ran part of the health planning at this point johnson disbanded the remaining part (austerity killed some of it off already) when he came into power. It was predicted that lockdown was a necessary part that long ago...Btw, were still overdue a 'flu pandemic.

It was political in fighting that was the cause of ridiculous directives and the extended lockdown.

Ah yes, the political infighting in the Tory government caused by...
Can you see what it is yet?
...Brexit.

Yes because we wouldn't use the planning from one very infectious virus and apply it to another. I mean that would just be....toological and sensible, ridiculous .

18 years ago? Is that what you meant, wasn’t Labour in then?

Lockdown isn’t that great anyway. In terms of huge damage it causes. We’re still seeing the impact from it now.

Yep. Labour did the planning. The conservatives disbanded it completely when Johnson came in.

And having worked with people who've got PTSD from seeing patients die, seeing colleagues die....people are saying it wasn't great now from some remove. A lot more people would have died and it gave space to develop a vaccine. But this is derailing the thread. Brexit was a complete distraction and is still.

EasternStandard - as a matter of interest as you an expert or having any particular experience in these areas?

As can be seen from the US, it’s global capitalism you are describing, not the EU. The US is not part of the EU, but living standards are squeezed there, too, because global capitalism ensures businesses go to where the labour is cheapest, or bring the cheapest labour in. The EU ensured that more of the benefit of European trade remained within the EU as a whole, whilst working to maintain (or in poorer EU countries, improve) good employment rights and benefits, so that countries within the EU were more inclined to work with each other than compete against each other. It was a protectionist set up that also increased the bargaining power of the EU bloc as a whole with the outside world, which is why people like Trump and Putin hate the EU. The disadvantage was that it obliged EU countries to be less self-centred amongst themselves.

You need to be careful what you wish for, because with no EU, Europe is lots of countries with less individually to offer the outside world than the EU has as a whole, and once countries move their focus to more individualistic notions of protectionism and putting themselves first, you end up with what we have now - growing global instability and smaller countries being thrown about in the massive waves caused by the actions of bigger, more powerful countries. It’s countries like the US which have the clout to inflict tariffs on everyone else. The UK is not in a position to start any such trade war. Smaller countries and trading blocks just have to work out which arses are safest to lick (the answer being none of them when the world has gone into “me first” mode).

I’m sure some are immune to the harms of lockdowns.

Back to topic Brexit is a reality. Mn threads won’t change that.

We are unlikely to accept the Euro so unless that changes rejoining is likely out.

It only offsets 0.1% of the damage caused by Brexit itself.
Yay. Bring out the bubbles.

"Could you highlight or repost them please." - probably not, well not anything based on reality!

@RoadtoVima obviously has no idea of EU politics. And now Sir Keir is busy giving back our fishing grounds - the EU really, really want the fish, which are the reason Norway would not become a full member of the EU.

As previously stated in my post, I gave the answer to a poster regarding what I consider likely for approximately ten years from now. It outlines the benefits I believe will come to the UK as a result of it.

As has been shown just recently, increases to national wage also cause cost of living increases. They would not have helped with Nationals coming from eg Romania, Where the £250 a week they were earning equated to £1k in their home Country. If anything it would have made the UK even more attractive.

Don't believe many of the European Countries are becoming more insular looking? Then have a look at recent election results. A far more centric right leaning population with nationalistic beliefs is being shown time and again.

Do you think there will be another vote in the future to join the E.U?

@ARealitycheck As previously stated in my post, I gave the answer to a poster regarding what I consider likely for approximately ten years from now. It outlines the benefits I believe will come to the UK as a result of it.

You talked about what you think might happen inside the EU, referring to a “backlash” but not describing benefits to the UK.

Go re-read the post. :)

@RoadtoVima You might like to read some of the history of the making of the EU, and what was intended by its founders. You might also like to look at how it is actually run i.e. a parliament that cannot legislate, commissioners who are unelected and must swear allegiance to the EU over their countries etc. You are funny, btw.

So no Brexit benefits then. Just some stuff you imagine might happen 10 years from now.

19 years after the referendum.

SMH🤦‍♀️