To want Brexit be reversed

[BeKookySheep]

I don’t normally post about politics, but this has been playing on my mind for a while. I wasn’t super political before the referendum — just a mum trying to do her best for her family. But now, years later, I really feel like Brexit hasn’t delivered what we were promised. And I think we should seriously start talking about reversing it.

My eldest is 16, really bright, and had dreams of studying languages and maybe doing a year abroad. We looked into Erasmus a while ago, but that’s gone now. And the cost and hassle of studying or working in Europe is so much higher now. She asked me, “Why is it so much harder for us than it was for you, Mum?” And honestly, I didn’t know what to say. It hit me hard.

Everything’s more expensive — our food shop has gone up loads, and don’t even get me started on getting certain things for school packed lunches! Little things, but they add up. My brother runs a small business and he's drowning in paperwork just to send stuff to Ireland. And a friend of mine left the NHS because she felt so overstretched — they can’t recruit enough staff anymore, especially from Europe.

Brexit hasn’t made anything better. It’s just made life harder in so many small but important ways. And if something clearly isn’t working — and is limiting our children’s futures — why shouldn’t we talk about changing it?

We tell our kids it’s okay to admit when something’s not right and make it better. Maybe it’s time we took our own advice.

Would love to hear if others are feeling the same. Has Brexit made life harder for your family too?

I was in two minds about the 2016 referendum. I voted to join a trade deal in 1975, and I was happy to continue that. When the notion of political and fiscal union were mooted in 1992 I thought there should have been a deliberate opt in, and there wasn't. I wasn't thrilled with the expansion into Eastern Europe, and the arrival of mass cheap labour definitely destabilised the UK's economy. But I would also concede the EU has achieved some really superb civil engineering projects in Spain and Portugal. Frankly, I still haven't decided whether it was a good decision or a bad one, and I asked my DC17 to choose my vote on the day.

Are you involved in some way?

All the LOLz. 😂 Leavers have DENIED the Remainers the 'right' to vote to go back into in the EU? There was a referendum and the majority of the country voted to leave dear.... No-one has 'denied' anyone anything!

And what if we had another EU referendum, and LEAVE won again?

Best of 5?! 😂

We can't go back into the EU because we will never satisfy the criteria for rejoining.

So yes, the decision made largely by older and less educated voters is permanently binding on the more intelligent and younger people who will have to live with it.

Well what would the alternative be? Staying in the EU forever despite people wanting out? Because people might change their mind later?

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

"....yes, the decision made largely by older and less educated voters is permanently binding on the more intelligent and younger people who will have to live with it."

I think it's so funny that you actually believe this. 😂

I'm embarassed for you that you think younger people are automatically 'better educated' and more intelligent! (Than 'older' people!!!) 😂

You do know right, that people in the 'under 30' age group had the lowest turnout to vote in the EU referendum, than ANY other age group.

Doesn't sound like the actions of intelligent, well-educated people to me!

If 'the young' are not happy with the UK leaving the EU, they have only their complacency to blame. And, as many posters have said, name-calling/calling Leave voters thick, old, badly-educated bigots just makes people look very bitter, not very well educated, and generally, really bad losers! 😬

Would that be the more intelligent and younger people who were too stupid to get off their arses and vote?

😂 YES, exactly what I said!!! 🤣

All the post referendum analysis consistently showed a strong correlation between education level and voting patterns, with more educated people being far more likely to vote remain and less educated people being far more likely to vote leave.

Almost as if a little education teaches you not to believe everything you read on the side of a bus.

You might not like this, but that doesn't make it any less true.

I accept the referendum result. A thick person's vote is as good as mine. But it wasn't a good idea, and the actual aftermath of the referendum has proven the remainers right at every turn.

The fundamental flaw was that Brexit was not defined. How can you vote on an unknown? The referendum to join had two known options: one was the status quo (outside the EU) and one was about joining an established union (such as it was back then). The 2016 referendum pitted one known v one complete unknown. There are many leavers who argued that 'just leave' meant leave everything but that was not at all necessary or that simple. There were many ways to brexit, some much more damaging than others. It should have never been handled like a binary decision because it wasn't one. I really think it would have been more democratic to have either laid out the plans upfront, at the time of the referendum, for what Brexit would mean outside of the CU and SM and to get people to vote on that - or indeed to submit the final deal to a second referendum. As it was, we had the worst of both worlds. The people were 'consulted' through a marginally won referendum indicating a deeply divided opinion but had no say in the subsequent (and more important) direction of travel. I feel we were utterly manipulated and that has nothing to do with my personal thoughts on whether or not I think Brexit was a good idea in the long run. The whole process was botched.

This is a mass generalisation based on zero evidence. But OK...

In any society there’s a range of higher education which is fine, not everyone needs it to make society function. I find the ‘thick’ accusations off putting though on these threads. It seems unnecessary.

In this case I think it's justified though. Nobody can say they weren't warned about the downsides of Brexit. They just chose to ignore the warnings.

All these, what would appear from this thread: self-acclaimed young, educated, intelligent euro-centric-remoaners, really need to put their big specs on and see that there is a very large world outside of their little sphere of foot-stomping 'want'. Hard to believe some old, uneducated folk can see there is life and trade and education beyond the confines of europe. Some of it even speaks the same language.

I agree. I was strongly a remain voter and felt very upset about the way the referendum was run and the blatant lies and manipulations that went on, but it is just ridiculous and unhelpful to argue that the Leave vote won because Leave voters are stupid and/or uneducated. In reality, plenty of people who voted Remain would have done so on the basis of fear and ignorance, just as plenty of people who voted Leave will have done so on the basis of unjustified anger towards institutions and arrangements they were just as ignorant of. When people of all levels of education and intelligence feel angry and betrayed enough by their leaders, history has proven they are far more likely to believe the fictions of populists when fed something to attach their otherwise unfocused anger on. If it’s uneducated people who fall for this first, imvho, this has a lot to do with them generally having more to feel pissed off about, sooner. As the country gets poorer and poorer, more and more people will start to get dragged into the bracket of feeling seriously betrayed and angry, and growing numbers of people will become more susceptible to the bollocks spouted by populists, whatever their level of education. That’s why I think Brexit was such a disaster, because it has demonstrably made the country poorer at this point than it would otherwise have been, so feeding the populist beast. The consequences of Brexit have simply given even more people reason to feel pissed off about the state of the country.

@Walkaround your so right. The impact of Brexit has pushed people towards populism. Even though it was what caused Brexit in the first place.

I don’t think calling people thick helps. I don’t understand the details of economics so I look to people I trust to interpret it for me.

I think so much of this turn to populism is coming because people don’t trust the old institutions- the mainstream politicians, the scientists, the economists, the journalists. We should stop calling people stupid and ask how we can rebuild people’s faith in these institutions again. It’s something that I really worry about happening in Ireland too. (Voting for populist parties not leaving the EU necessarily)

I think people are noticing a shift in politics, in the EU for example, which is more a symptom of a straining system.

Democracy includes the right to change your mind.
Unfortunately leave voters have denied the rest of us that right because we'll never be allowed back in now.

this is correct

however I would point out that a lack of higher education does not equal a lack in intelligence

Well unless you’ve missed the news for the last 2 weeks that is exactly what the Govt has done! But still people aren’t happy!

Do you mean the news about the benefit of Brexit and Britain's ability to make new trade deals with countries outside of europe? 😃

What does “better educated” mean anyway. Plenty of young people go to university today who would have not been considered intelligent enough 30 years ago and would not have gone.

It really is the latest fad, to bring up ‘therapy’ to have a dig at someone. I find it a really unintelligent response. I work in mental health and there is absolutely a place for therapy.

It has to be a considered decision and the right therapy given for the right issue. ‘Have therapy’ is not an insult to be thrown at someone who has a different political opinion, and who is struggling as she sees the limited opportunities in Europe her daughter has compared to 20 years ago.

People are allowed to feel normal emotions, without automatically needing professional counselling you know.

But saying "project fear" when people point out the obvious and predictable downsides to Brexit and voting for it anyway does. And then claiming that the only reason it didn't turn out swimmingly was because remoaners tried to sabotage it.

They can always vote again.

I remember when the EU made Ireland vote on something twice, because it didn't like the results of the first vote.

Now there's democracy!

I'd challenge the 'less educated' claims. I'd suggest a better description would be different skill set.

Manual workers like builders and mechanics etc were the ones most adversely affected by the influx of cheap foreign labour. Is it any wonder that they were the ones more likely to vote leave.

I'd also suggest that those desperately wanting to rejoin the EU have a look at the economy of these Countries. Germany & France the other two major net contributors alongside us are in a poor financial state also, and have a major swing towards more centric right politics.