Crime statistics by country of origin

[Zebedee999]

The government is proposing to publish crime statistics by country of origin.

A few weeks ago I mentioned some statistics from other European countries (and in fact the UK) showing that sex crimes against women by men of certain countries are 40 times those of the indigenous British. I got called racist (the stats are by country not race) and of course the stats were removed as racist.

Personally I think women's safety should be the overriding priority and such statistics should be used as part of a process to determine who can move to the UK. Why allow in men who statistically will carry out 40 times the sex crimes of the indigenous population? Let in women by all means.

I am genuinely interested why my view is racist when to me it is simply prioritising women's safety. AIBU to want immigration processes to prioritise women's safety?

Racially profiling people is racist though. Unfortunately for you your brilliant idea won't work because we have something called Human Rights.

Everyone has human rights, even men, and it's called racial discrimination when you exclude a race and sex from equal rights.

So are crime stats also sexist against men? If not; why not?

Of course. They kill each other a lot as well, in the thousands.

You do realise that the whole recent SC case was about excluding men on the basis of sex yes?

this is such a simplistic analysis I despair

but anyway - men from other countries don’t have a human right to live in the UK. I am comfortable with prioritising the human rights of women and girls to be entitled to be protected against the risk of violence from men from other countries over the rights of said men to come and live in this country.

and as I’ve said a million tjmes it’s about culture not race

see the stats about be men from Syria committing sexual violence in Germany. Do you think this should be ignored?

… except when it is a proportionate means to a legitimate aim.
So whilst it is unlikely in the case of discrimination on the basis of race, on the basis of sex, I think the argument could at least me made, don’t you think?

Not as far as I know. Men are known universally to be more aggressive than women. However, some believe that the judiciary is biased against women.

again - does the evidence show that men from the USA are more likely to commit at a group level vawg IN BRITAIN?

maybe they are - I don’t know. If they are then my argument also applies to them

So-called racial profiling is lumping together all people of a perceived ethnicity.

It would mean 'profiling' all Arabic people, for example, regardless of where they came from or how long they've been part of British society. I chose to use Arabic as my example because many Arabs are 'white', so it throws the complications of 'race' based thinking into high relief.

Profiling recent immigrants from Syria, for instance, would encompass all recent immigrants of Syrian nationality - many of whom are white in the terms of racist categorisation.

To assume nationality = 'race' is racist.

You seem to be very confused. The recent ruling was about biological sex and discrimination.

We're talking about racial discrimination. Wanting to take away human rights from certain races because we don't believe they're entitled to have equal rights. In the same way South Africa did under apartheid or the States did during segregation.

I didn't say men from other countries have a right to live in the UK, I said that everyone is entitled to the same human rights.

Interesting you use India and not Syria our turkey

at all group level are Indian men more likely to commit vawg in Britain?

I know that there are issues around “honour killings” and I believe that there ARE laws and interventions specifically targeted against this specific cultural practice. See also specific laws and interventions targeted at specific cultural practices. And investigations and community interventions etc would without a doubt be based on cultural profiling.

Ah - the old apartheid argument. I imagine this is being recycled from a TWAW argument.

Cultural profiling would be a much more useful tool, @2024onwardsandup.

Should a data analysis throw up a much larger risk of criminal behaviour by people who are:
Men and
Under 65 and
Afghan and
Muslim

I wouldn't be wildly surprised and would consider it valid to apply reasonable precautions on this basis.

That has nothing to do with their skin colour or 'race'. It's also possible I'm wrong and those men are no more criminal than average English-born men. Cool. That sort of analysis is what data's for.

Will the results make distinction between British citizens, black British etc?

The best thing to do is Google "India VAWAG" and look at the information. The majority of people coming into the UK outside Europe, are from India. We are apparently now judging people on VAWAG in their culture.

Actually it is. Racism includes colour, nationality, citizenship and ethnic or national origins.

Beaker people, North Italian Celtic diaspora, Roman, Northern European Angles and Saxons, Norman's, Scandinavian vikings, french Huguenots, Irish, Ugandan Asian, west Indian, etc.
Which line of immigrants do you ancestors hail from?
Nothing wrong with being proud of your forebears and traditions, but Britain really has been a cultural melting pot.
The problem is that when people say indigenous British what they are really saying is white European, they ignore the fact there has been a black population in Britain since the Roman invasion, predating the angles and Saxons by hundreds of years, I doubt anyone who uses the term indigenous would say that black people are indigenous to Britain

No, it's about crime committed by foreigners.

No - the stats referred to are vawg IN BRTAIN of men from those cultures

do you think it is against the human rights of immigrants/refugees from India that there are targeted laws/interventions based on cultural practices that harm women and girls?

YANBU at all.

So you think it is racist to identify different practices and beliefs in different groups of people?

Also, @Bobbingtons, the original, original (Cheddar man) Brits had dark skin 😂

So we shouldn’t stop likely rapists from entering the country - or impose requirements or restrictions on such a group of men - because it would be unfair because men who already live in the country can get away with rape far easier??

Yes, that’s exactly what I said. 🙄

Why don’t you try engaging your brain rather than your emotions when you read?

Why are they universally known to be more aggressive? Oh yes - stats. So - why can’t stats be applied in a similar manner to other groups?

There seems to be some very confused ideas about how we're going to discriminate using this data. Some people are arguing that we shouldn't let these men into the country because of their culture/race/nationality.

I'm not sure what you're arguing.

do you think it is against the human rights of immigrants/refugees from India that there are targeted laws/interventions based on cultural practices that harm women and girls?

Do I think it's against their human rights to make it illegal to harm women - no. Do you?

How do we use criminal statistics against men?