New councillor wants to stop 'free mixing' between men and women

[SeaSwim5]

Independent candidate Maheen Kamran has been elected in Burnley.

As well as support for Gaza, her manifesto included a pledge to encourage public spaces to end free mixing of men and women.

"Muslim women aren't really comfortable being involved with Muslim men. I'm sure we can have segregated areas, segregated gyms."

Is this a sensible approach and important for inclusivity? It's notable that many anti-Trans activists advocate the importance of single-sex spaces.

However, some have raised concerns about the growing sectarian nature of UK politics.

Should we be looking to reduce 'free mixing' between men and women and create more single sex spaces?

Trans women aren’t banned from accessing football. Just from taking a place on a women’s team. They have every right to continue to play - but they’ll have to do it with men.

It’s absolutely disgraceful. 20 amateur althletes in a team sport. This is what this country has become. Disgusting.

I think woman-only (female-only) sessions are a good thing because they allow women to relax and hear female voices in a way that we usually don't. I'd never really thought about libraries, cafes etc but I certainly don't think having one or two woman-only sessions a week if there is demand for them is a bad thing.

And franky, I'd rather that women from cultures that don't allow or encourage them to mix with men have lots of opportunities to get out of the house and mixing and making friends with a diverse range of people from other cultures even if those people are all women, than getting stuck at home or socialising only within a very limited social group.

I as a private person should be able to form a group that is only for the people I want to join that group.

We shouldn’t be able to say that men walk on the north side of the street and women walk on the south side of the street.

The devil is in the details in the middle. At what point does something switch from allowing people to freely associate to becoming discrimination. We know men’s clubs effectively shut women out of the higher levels of business for years. We know that places of public accommodation like restaurants and hotels have discriminated against people because of race or religion.

I want to live in a world where it is true that women or men can have private spaces, but women or men can’t be arbitrarily prevented from full participation in society. It’s a very tricky law to write.

You are being deliberately obtuse.

There is a whole world of difference between having separate changing rooms and prisons, to protect the more vulnerable members of society, and segregation in every public space to keep men and women apart.

We have seen segregation in action in several countries in living memory and it usually ends up with the weaker party not being allowed to anywhere freely.

The need for single sex spaces is in private places like toilets and changing rooms. Not public places like this suggestion.

If women in the Muslim community want to group together at a shopping mall or café or wherever, without Muslim men, surely the women just group together and the men understand they need to group together and not insert themselves in a group of women?

And certainly not to impose gender division in public British spaces.

People should be able to choose whether they access an amenity in a single-sex environment or a mixed-sex environment. For this reason things like women-only swim sessions and single-sex dorms in hostels exist, but the option to choose mixed exists too.

This councillor seems to want to remove the mixed-sex options. This is a loss of freedom of choice.

Some TRAs want to remove the single-sex option by admitting males into a supposedly all-female environment. This too is removing freedom of choice.

OK, so when you say the default is that we are not sex segregated, what you mean is the default is that only some spaces are sex segregated.

i think I’d need to know the details. Women only gym session - yes. Women only streets - no.

This story seems to have been picked up by right wing news sources (including Fox News) with heavy bias so it’s difficult to know what she actually said.

Her statement on this website says nothing of this; https://whocanivotefor.co.uk/person/121022/maheen-kamran

Neither does it say anything on her website. https://maheenkamran.com

So clearly whatever it was she said about this topic isn’t even one of her main priorities. It seems like she is being picked on.

What about hospital wards, breastfeeding support groups, rape support groups , women only swimming/gym sessions etc?

I didn't suggest it be done at Center Parcs 😂

I said I usually SEE Muslim women swimming at CP.

I'm sure many more would use a local pool if they didn't have to be covered from head to toe, is my point.

All of those examples are already single sex, or should be. And the recent high court ruling should ensure that.

You mean the boxer that even his own team admitted has a 'chromosome issue'?

I still can't believe this thread, is the OP implying that segregation for fairness, privacy and dignity of women (you know, those human rights everyone is supposed to have) in areas where biological sex matters, means we should also segregate women and men in all areas of public life? Really? That eager to oppress women are you?

Eager to complete writing their article.

You talking to me?

Where in my post did I say or imply women and men should be segregated in all areas of public life?

Except by allowing transwomen into women's sports, particularly those that involve contact, women will not only feel unsafe but will actually be unsafe due to the physiological advantages conferred by male puberty.

Those very same advantages also confer a competitive advantage, meaning transwomen aka males will take places on teams away from women.

And before any tra who doesn't understand the concept of a categorical advantage starts pointing out that transwomen don't always win or aren't always the best, no, that does not mean every transwoman is better than every woman.

Sex is a scientific fact. ideology is a philosophy. Confusion is created by completing two different things.

This is the thing isn’t it. It’s not coming from women’s groups for the benefit of women. It’s coming from a misogynistic religion that has far too much influence in Britain already.

Only read the first sentence of the observer article there wasn’t any point in reading anymore. It’s a grave injustice that people were told you could change your sex and spent money and time and pain in endeavouring to achieve that.

@Lostcatdid you read this? @MyHeartyCoralSnailhelpfully sets out the legal position.

Not necessarily true, my council ran gym has a women's only gym. It's rather pleasant!

Yeah but I think she means that doing activities like exercise at a gym is not encouraged/ avoided in Muslim communities. Her wording is sloppy because she's 18.

I could be wrong- but having looked it up, all the reporting comes from that one single quote, without any clarification.

Er you are contradicting yourself there. This is exactly what she is proposing, that the Muslim community can have spaces where women can go without the male gaze.

For Muslim women a female only gym, or gym session, means they can take of the hijab (if they wear one) and wear the leggings / shorts / tops other women wear to exercise.

Oooh are they? What rights do they want to remove from trans people? I mean, the SC gave transmen confirmation that they would be protected if they needed maternity or abortion services and confirmed transpeople would be protected under the gender reassignment PC.

Nope. I’d totally support men only sessions. I support Andy’s man club as I do think men also need spaces to express themselves in ways they may not feel free to do in a mixed sex spaces