New councillor wants to stop 'free mixing' between men and women

[SeaSwim5]

Independent candidate Maheen Kamran has been elected in Burnley.

As well as support for Gaza, her manifesto included a pledge to encourage public spaces to end free mixing of men and women.

"Muslim women aren't really comfortable being involved with Muslim men. I'm sure we can have segregated areas, segregated gyms."

Is this a sensible approach and important for inclusivity? It's notable that many anti-Trans activists advocate the importance of single-sex spaces.

However, some have raised concerns about the growing sectarian nature of UK politics.

Should we be looking to reduce 'free mixing' between men and women and create more single sex spaces?

FWIW I just found her "What I'll do for Burnley" election blurb, and nowhere does it mention any reasures such as are being proposed:

https://maheenkamran.com/

Misogyny in the CofE or the CofS is a separate issue. I wasn’t commenting on that.

The CofE has appointed gay bishops and female bishops. You don’t see Islam allowing that.

Presumably this would be supported by those who want such spaces for religious reasons but also by people who oppose trans women accessing women's spaces

Stop embarrassing yourself, OP.

Absolutely not true.

There are some gay and female Imams. Not many but they exist. Google if you don't believe me. I'm sure the numbers will increase.

In the area mentioned the local council facilities do have women only session times for both swimming and gym. I am not sure but maybe more to this.

Like Muhsin Hendricks? He was the first in the world, shot dead just three months ago

I agree, there is such a polarised debate it’s difficult to ascertain what is reasonable. This is complicated when you add in a different protected characteristics like race and religion.

My view is that privacy and dignity is important but is limited to places like changing rooms, prisons, hospitals etc. Ideally in a gym you have single sex changing or mixed sex with fully enclosed cubicles. Gaps under or over cubicles sadly allow men to use phones to film under or over the partial walls. The addition of mixed sex options is a good compromise.

WRT public spaces unless there is a very good reason they should be open to all but have the ability to have times when they maybe limited by sex. For example women only swim sessions.

Just like the trans/GC debate there is a worrying element of “no debate or you are racist” about integration of different races, religions and beliefs in a country. If groups of people want to create their own segregated public spaces that fine, for example we have single sex schools, but they should not take away or impose their lifestyle on everyone. I certainly want to retain mixed public spaces e.g. churches, town halls, schools, universities, workplaces, theatres, gyms etc. All places where trans people should be welcome as well as women and men.

This is the thin end of the wedge.

Indeed but there are others.

You seem a bit confused.

we have single sex spaces where women are potentially vulnerable and want/need privacy away from men.

this isn’t a theatre or a library.

Could possibly be a gym as many women suffer sexual harassment at gyms.

why would you want to bring regressive ideas from religion / other countries into daily life in the uk?

one of the reasons I oppose trans identified men accessing women only spaces is because it’s a very very regressive idea that doing “X Y or Z makes you a woman”.

A progressive approach would be to welcome all men, however “gender non conforming” they may or may not be, into men’s spaces, not eliminating women’s spaces by allowing men into them (whatever their identity).

Saying a man wearing a dress/nail polish/lippy/whatever is therefore a woman is straight up old school horrible sex stereotypes which are best avoided.

@RobinEllacotStrike we have single sex spaces where women are potentially vulnerable and want/need privacy away from men. this isn’t a theatre or a library.

The shite I see on Youtube with "pick up artists" trying to talk to women in places such as libraries, without the consent of the woman, would call that into question.

I wouldn’t go near this either.

Exactly.

And btw @MaggieMistletoe as someone born and raised in Glasgow - Scotland,
or at least Glasgow, is actually way more inclusive of other cultures than England.

There is a love of traditions eg. Most school kids practice Scottish dancing every year and some schools even do Gaelic etc, lots of people attend ceilidhs whether as part of weddings or just as a thing on its own and various other things and of course the men wearing kilts for formal occasions.

But they do it in a very friendly “hey this is my culture, anyone can join in” way rather than an ominous stoic “ this is Britain and we will preserve our culture” way.

Theres also been modern twists to things to include others eg. Named a tartan after an Indian family so “new Scots” as they’re called have a family tartan.

So yeah there’s a reason why generally round the world Scottish and Irish etc are seen more positively and minorities icing with Scotland at least don’t see their traditions as “racist or trash” it’s because the spirit in which it’s conducted.

Honestly England could learn a lot from Scotland but not in the way you think 😂

Also - English /british even now certainly don’t have a great record for assimilation in other counties and I’m not about historically. They are known for whingeing about things not being the way they are back home and not learning the language etc I’ve witnessed this in many countries.

I don’t even agree with the councillors proposals about an end to free mixing but it’s interesting how certain people react based on the fact she’s British Asian and Muslim

@yodoho Scotland or at least Glasgow is actually more inclusive of other cultures than England.

Scotland receives fewer immigrants, proportionally, than England.

I’m aware of that. I didn’t say they had a higher number of immigrants? Again Glasgow/Scotland has a more inclusive approach and spirit than most of England.

Too late to edit previous post but in my original OP i meant to say “minorities living in Scotland don’t see their traditions as racist” eg you’ll see many from the Scottish Asian community proudly wearing kilts.

You can’t see any difference between toilets, prisons and rape crisis centres, to libraries and theatres?

Stop being disingenuous.

I think this is where the quote has come from:

Politics Home Article | Labour Figures Fear More Gaza Independent Gains At The Local Elections

Do you often nip to your local library in your underwear?

@yodoho Again Glasgow/Scotland has a more inclusive approach and spirit than most of England.

Clearly not, otherwise there would be more immigrants in Scotland.

I would like single sex spaces to exist where the need is asssessed in a way completely separate from individual beliefs. I don't care if these are beliefs in a higher power with sexist views or whether it's the belief men can be born with female brains.

It would take quite a lot of mental gymnastics to believe there are no shades of grey between everything being unisex and Sharia law, especially if you've already convinced yourself there are shades of grey between male and female.

As a society the places that are single sex have been developed over time, in response to a need and a nuanced debate. The other side of the debate has been mixing more in places like education and board rooms.

It isn't just what some women want or demand, for example, women are so uncomfortable in vulnerable or undressed situations like hospital wards or changing rooms, that to ensure equity in accessing these services we need to provide separate sex facilities.

There are five gay imams; one was murdered earlier this year. There are a handful of female imams; they are not allowed in men’s mosques. That’s not remotely the same as the situation in the Church of England.

Islam is a dangerously old-fashioned, problematic faith that places far more restrictions on women than it does on men. There is no place for that in the UK. Or any country.

😅I wondered when Xenophobia would find its way to this thread. Got to shoehorn in the hate for England, to complete the bingo card.

But people can choose not to wear revealing clothes. I’ve seen folk swim in leggings and a T-shirt. Baggy shorts, etc. and for the Muslim ladies, there are burkini’s. You don’t have to swim in a minuscule bikini. Anyway, there are ladies-only options available.

The more worrying thing is the proposal for no mixing of sexes in public places. We are British and don’t segregate. If you want to segregate, choose to live in a country where that is the cultural norm - do not bring archaic cultural practices here and refuse to integrate with the host country’s norm.

Segregation was awful in the American South and South Africa (for skin colour reasons, not between male/female) and sex-based segregation isn’t exactly working well in places like Iran and Afghanistan, is it?

No - people who demand these things want to cherry-pick from archaic cultural practices, but keep the ‘good bits’ of Western living. We should not stand for it at all, it is a slippery slope.

Absolutely not. Segregation only sets us back and is an erosion of equality, which is still way too far off in the first place. We should hold our own among men and men should respect us regardless of what spaces we are in. She should not push a religious agenda full stop. I am allergic to such people and have been calling out that bullshit whether it comes from the Christian ultra right Project 2025 nutters or Muslims or orthodox Jews.