To think this country’s gone to S***

[emsjk]

Second time now I’ve sat down to have drinks with a friend only to be met with “I don’t agree with Farage, but…”

Cue a rant about Muslims, immigrants, how the country is not what they remember in the good old days.

More and more people are starting to spout this drivel about immigrants. Yesterday it was literally ‘I’m not racist, I have asian family, but’ and then cue racist rant.

I feel like the country I love that used to be fair and tolerant has gone to shit.

Yes there does need to be this happening

Evidently, being “smart” doesn’t work for everyone

They all get reprogrammed. Today’s Labour update faster and further. But Starmer is the worst for this.

Farage spouts populist claptrap to appeal to the bloke down the pub propping up the bar wearing his Union Jack vest and holding an XL bully dog by the lead (presumably unmuzzled). Reform have no workable solutions to immigration issues

Show me a worthy opponent and I will give it a go. All I'm seeing is just another lefty, who insists their way is the only way. Maybe extend your reading beyond the Guardian to find that big wide world out there.

Hopefully it will start a race for workable solution between parties.

Very silly response. I don't think you understand left and right politics. Call me what you like, I can see both sides of the debate. You can't see past the end of your nose and it shows.

So how does that unoriginal description apply to POC who vote Reform? Ah, let me guess, you're one of those who ignore their posts when they say they agree with Reform. Can't have your diatribe being spoilt by the people who have an experience that doesn't fit with your lazy reference to Reform voters.

Your estimates do not take account of the budget contributions we would have made to the EU budget if we were still members.

Also, your first link says that Gertjan Vlieghe is an independent economist on the Bank’s nine-member MPC, so not a Bank of England estimate.

If you can see both sides of the debate, I'm not sure why your first post to me didn't reflect that and instead was personal. Cut the BS and stop being so silly. Your attempt to look down on me will be batted back every time you silly Billy.

If all immigrants were blonde-haired and blue-eyed, you can bet the right wouldn’t be anywhere near as loud or opinionated on the subject. We never seem to have debates about white migrants from the US or Europe despite their values, cultures, and morals often differing from our own. I mean is it really safe to be letting in gun loving, pro-life supporting, ultra conservative Americans into this country?

Also, if cultural change is supposedly such a threat, why has there never been a right-wing campaign to end emigration? Over 600,000 Brits leave every year. If you're really that concerned about preserving British culture (side note: can someone on the right actually define what that means?), surely stopping our own people from leaving would be a good start. Lead by example, right?

Anyway, no one on the left is saying we should just keep taking “more and more and more” migrants. What we do take issue with is the constant scapegoating, stereotyping, and othering of entire groups of people simply because of their skin colour, religion, or nationality.

The reality is the UK has an ageing population and a shrinking native workforce. That means lower tax revenue and more pressure on public services.

There are only a few ways to address this:

• Reduce demand on services and the state (any right wingers willing to give up their state pension or access to the NHS? No? Well that's not happening then).

• Redistribute wealth (definitely not happening under the Tories, Labour, or Reform).

• Increase productivity (that requires investment in infrastructure and people, so again not happening under the Tories or Reform)

• Grow the workforce.

And that’s why, despite spending the last decade whipping up fear about immigration, the Tories quietly let legal migration rise to record levels.

And let’s not kid ourselves, the right have absolutely no interest in helping people on the breadline. We all know that once they stop blaming migrants for all our ills the poor and disabled will be next on the chopping block.

Bullshit? 🤣

Nah. My first post to you was because you're not politically educated.

You can keep coming back as much as you like, calling people names, if this is the best you can do there's no wonder you're feeling compelled to reduce yourself to childishness instead of going away and coming back with some well thought out points, some evidence, anything really will do.

UK has enough workforce! But pays billions so that they stay home.
For local unskilled people work doesn't pay as nicely as benifits. So the gvmt keeps importing.

If all immigrants were blonde-haired and blue-eyed, you can bet the right wouldn’t be anywhere near as loud or opinionated on the subject.

Do you not remember "the Poles are coming!"? It was everywhere! However, I don't recall terrorism being part and parcel when it came to the Polish immigrants 🤷‍♀️

What does political education look like to you? I can guarantee it's everything but lived experience. Text books and the Guardian will only get you so far. I'm smelling a first year undergrad Politics student here, but your bitterness reflects more advanced years.

@Shakeoffyourchains I think you'll find that negative sentiment to immigration started properly taking hold when the A8 former Communist bloc countries joined the EU and that pillock Blair didn't put a 7 year brake on them joining our labour market, as per the other similarly sized economies to ours. You cannot have FOM between countries that do not share economic parity, because it's all one way traffic.

So, your assertion that the country only has an issue with brown people is wrong. Prior to this, we had a small number of racist arseholes willing to vote BNP but the problem really started when a very significant number of unskilled white people came over using FOM and began undercutting British workers, not joining unions and unwittingly starting the divide and conquer that big corps have so enjoyed.

I've just binned off a very old friend because our views do not align in the slightest any more and she is going on "Our Britain" type marches, always gobbing off on FB about various different cultural groups. Can't be doing with that shit, and I don't miss her at all.

Thanks for sharing that brave act. 🙏

I live in an area that has had a high influx of mainly pakistani families move in over the last 5-10 years. The area has changed immeasurably. It has become very run down, lots of rubbish everywhere. The shops are all takeaways and vape shops now all owned and run by pakistanis. There is no community feeling anymore either. I can completely understand why people have had enough of this!

I bet there's a community feeling, but you are not a part of that comminity. It's hard to be included if you are not speaking the community language and have different traditions.

In comparison to other countries,UK makes no effort to integrate these ppl. In Germany, they would have to attend language courses 5 days a week and their benefits would depend on it.

It's ChatGPT - so I fed your critique into it and it came up with this - still enormous by any stretch.

🇪🇺 UK Contributions to the EU Budget
You're correct that any comprehensive assessment of Brexit's financial impact should consider the UK's contributions to the EU budget. According to the House of Commons Library, between 2016 and 2019, the UK's average net public sector contribution to the EU was approximately £7–7.5 billion per year. (House of Commons Library)
If we extrapolate this over seven years (2016–2022), the total net contributions would amount to roughly £52.5 billion.
In contrast, some estimates suggest that Brexit has led to an annual economic loss of around £40 billion, totaling approximately £280 billion over the same period.
Subtracting the foregone EU contributions from the estimated economic loss yields a net cost of approximately £227.5 billion.
🧑‍⚖️ Gertjan Vlieghe's Role and Estimates
You're also correct regarding Dr. Gertjan Vlieghe's position. He served as an external member of the Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) from September 2015 to August 2021. While he was affiliated with the Bank, his statements and analyses were his own and not official Bank estimates.(Bank of England, Wikipedia)
Therefore, attributing the £40 billion annual loss estimate directly to the Bank of England would be inaccurate. It's more precise to state that this figure was presented by Dr. Vlieghe in his capacity as an independent economist.
📊 Revised Comparative Summary
Category Estimated Cost Since 2016
Brexit Economic Impact
~£280 billion (based on £40 billion/year over 7 years)
Foregone EU Contributions
~£52.5 billion (based on £7.5 billion/year over 7 years)
Net Economic Impact
~£227.5 billion
Asylum System Costs
~£20 billion (cumulative over 7 years, considering annual increases)
Note: These figures are approximate and based on available estimates.
If you have further questions or need more detailed information, feel free to ask!

But that’s the point - the OPs community has been displaced by a community that has not integrated.

Any need to sneer? I'd have done the same.

I thought OP was parroting what people say, rather than this being their own opinions.

Hilarious
Neither of those. I'm not bitter, I have plenty of lived experience, and I don't buy the Guardian, my degrees are not in politics, I'm not a student nor am I anywhere near advanced age.

Bit odd that you're trying to make assumptions about my life