to think many grandmothers actually do not want to do childcare?

[onlytwo]

I go to a regular toddler group and there are many older women there with their grandchildren.

Been talking to them and many of them do not want to do childcare but have been pressured into by mostly their daughters but also their sons. Their children often think they are delighted to be looking after their grandchildren but often it is a huge struggle for these women (and it mostly women). They feel like they can't take a break because their children rely on them for childcare because of the cost of nurseries and general cost of living. They no longer have the same energy levels and also often have health issues.

Also grandfathers are usually not pressured into doing childcare and are rarely expected to give up their job when grandchildren come along. Their life mostly remains unchanged,

I feel the expectation of women to keep doing childcare is unfair and is coming from their own daughters. Some of the older women are frail and struggling to keep up with young children.

When talking to the mums, they say their mums love spending time with their grandchildren and looking after them. That is not what they have said to me.

Kindly meant but believe me that your son will bitterly resent this.
I can well imagine your exhaustion, but it is simply not fair that free childcare for one child means that other grandchildren don't get a look in.

THIS is why so many women are refusing any childcare, to be fair.

Rethink what you are doing, it is not fair.
The resentment is huge and understandable.

Your daughter is extremely selfish to allow this to fly.

My MIL was like this. Balked at the idea we were putting DDs in nursery. Insisted she would do the childcare. Luckily I managed to strike a compromise and she did 1 day while they went to nursery the rest of the time. Lo and behold a few weeks in "cant do next Monday, I'm having my hair done".

If we hadn't had places at nursery, we'd have been stuffed.

Both parents and grandparents are in an impossible situation. Parents can’t manage these days without two incomes. Childcare is hard to get, often poor quality and extremely expensive. Many grandparents don’t want to provide nanny style care, and want to live their own lives. Or work. There are no easy answers, and you can’t realistically blame either side.

Guilted by the daughter", a lot of women/men are quilted by those same parents to have kids in the first place.

I think it's a mix. I've met grandparents who look after their grandchildren several days a week and are exhausted. But I've also met some at play groups who were super keen to be hands on and in one instance relocated to be closer to help with childcare.

Our kids are at primary school now, but in those pre school years I worked part time and they went to a childminder/nursery and we had occasional help from grandparents. They are all very happy to help occasionally and do every holiday as well. They have said they really treasure this time with them, but equally I think they do because it's not too much either and isn't a grind. Going off travelling, having hobbies etc is an important part of retirement.

Just because everyone is talking about their experience as grandmas- you’re 100% right, I should’ve mentioned the men!

My FIL is just as dedicated to his grandkids, but he isn’t retired yet, so he doesn’t see them during the weekday quite as much as my MIL. However, everyone still stays over on the weekends, and he will go out of his way to see them (my niece and nephew) in the mornings to take them to school or nursery, and most evenings for an activity or dinner. We live further away but he’s still very actively involved.

My DH is the most doting parent and uncle. He probably does more than his 50/50 share, plus uncle duty. He’s educated and informed when it comes to child development and psychology, and he’s a really intentional parent.

My SIL gets more support from the PIL and us because the father is no longer involved — so he doesn’t count. I’m NC with my biological family, so the same applies for my father.

Neither me, MIL, nor SIL would put up with a man doing the bare minimum, especially when it comes to caring for their children. We only have actively involved men in our lives, so they’re pretty great.

I’m not trying to start trouble it was just a bit shocking to see some of the responses.

the men in my life are all great fathers and grandfathers. My FIL would’ve looked after my nephew after school 3 days a week until he headed to secondary school. MiL deceased. FIL loved it but it was one easy child for a few hours per day.

my own dad and mum looked after my nieces and nephews (they’re all older now) all through the years. Currently they look after my niece and nephew one day a week (2 under 2). It takes both of them as they’re full on. They love it and have great relationship with the kids. I don’t think they’d want to do any more though. My SIL’s parents have them 2 days per week. I think looking after dgc for 3 days or more a week is a huge undertaking.

I’ve noticed a scary trend of manipulation with
some in regard to Grandparents.

i see it in my own family and a few friends, Grandparents are asked to ‘help’ but it’s really a demand, and there’s a subtle implied threat (sometimes not that subtle) that if they don’t do exactly what’s asked and when, then it will be assumed they have no interest in their grandchildren and won’t need to see them anymore.

i know my MIL feels that way about my BILs kids and I, personally, have fallen out with someone who was essentially bragging that this was how they treated their mum, with such utter selfishness, cruelty and entitlement.

i feel sorry for grandparents in that position, and they’re the ones on my mind as I’m seeing it around me in at least 3 different relationships. Weaponising access to children has to stop.

No help here. So I've had to do various sahm part time work or self employment. I imagine I'll be working till I drop so I might not be able to offer any childcare but I would like to help my children if they have children as much as possible. Maybe more ad hoc flexible childcare as I deserve to live my life too!
Ironically our parents (all retired) both had lots of childcare from their parents. Yet we can't really get so much as a visit let alone any help. All I see at the school is grandparents doing pick up and drop offs having them after school so people can work. The school doesn't have any wraparound care and mostly grandparents are doing it for others so I'm one of very few interested in this so I might stand a chance of working more.

I feel a massive pressure to work more yet limited with childcare options(SEN) the women I know who can manage it have family help. Which whilst I'm not sure government are interested it in either way but can hide the issue and need somewhat if women are giving their free labour.

I have a relative that gave up work to help her daughter with childcare and still does as she had another baby after a big gap. She doesn't feel she can say no to her (definite golden child scenario)but it's meant she's burnt out can't live her own life and doesn't help her other child with any childcare. The daughter is very financially stable yet the grandparent is spending her very limited pension on travel to the daughters house it all seems very unfair. But it's seen as that's what a good grandparent should do. But its just womens free labour. The grandads aren't expected to do anything they get to have a retirement.

@CheeringOnTheSmartyPants

That's obviously not ok, but on Mumsnet you often see the exact opposite - posters suggesting that unless new parents let grandparents see the baby as much as they like, the grandparents should not bother with childcare later.

I agree that weaponising it is bad, but I've seen much more of the latter than what you describe on here.

People can manage they just don’t want to make the relevant sacrifices and reduce their standard of living OR only have the number of kids they can afford.

I am not keen on grandchildren,
if I have to provide regular childcare. By which I mean weekly.
So no pressure from me on the DC to have kids.
If they want to have kids, they need to figure out childcare.

You are being exploited by a selfish bully.
I feel for your son and his kids.

This.... We had one child, which we could cope with financially (we were at the begining of married life, having not long bought our house and having a baby wasn't quite "planned") We knew that if we had a second, then we wouldn't be able to afford two lots of childcare or for one of us to give up work.

Although we took some flak from the "you can't have just one" or "when are going to have another one?" brigade, it's worked well for us..

My husband and I worked full time when all our four kids were born bar the last one where I went part time for a bit.

Money was tight so he took all
the overtime going at the weekends while I was there and I got an evening cleaning job 3 hours an evening Monday-Thursday while he was home.

Needs must at the time. Gotta get on with it.

I am a mother that has had to beg our parents to even bother to see our children, to just read them a book. I got so fed up or asking for my children to have some quality grandparent time, I then started to no longer bother asking my husband mother or my own eventually, as they just couldn't be bothered to even ring regarding our first child together, after five children we were so happy and fuss free regarding their thoughts on us having a big family, I didn't care anymore on what they thought. The negative comments regarding children these days has changed society and a lot of grandparents just simply can not be bothered to engage never mind help in anyway attitudes have changed its sad. My mother- inlaw eventually needed care in her late 70s I said no sorry, once my eldest was a teen and my other children were mid school agers I went back to work full-time. I had my Mother-inlaw laugh at me when I struggled to work around my husband shifts her sons in the past so when she needed care, and support herself I said sorry no works both ways I guess we have an ageing population also and our parents think it's also acceptable to expect support from us as they grow older also.

You're not wrong OP, and it is almost always women expected to provide this free labour but even worse, if she does, her husband seems to get free credit for it, and it'll become 'my parents help out' even though it's her doing all the work. Really pisses me off, especially coming from other women.

I do it because I know it would be a struggle for them to pay for the mortgage and childcare and to make ends meet and because I love them I won’t see them struggle . But it’s harder than I thought . I can see why my own grandparents refused my parents anymore childcare after baby number 3 ( me) even though it caused great resentment. They were late sixties by then .

Why should my tax pay for other people's child care?
If they can't afford to they shouldn't have kids.

I'd never complain about looking after my grandchildren. I think grandparents play a vital role in families. That's just my opinion. We have always shared out the children in our families, in the same way as my grandparents loved having us.

That is fine for you but not everyone wants that. The care falls mostly on women not men.

That’s fine if you’re all happy with the arrangement. The problem is when parents feel entitled to child care from the GPs, and don’t take into account that they have a life too, plus they may not be in the best health, or that they have planned their retirement to be a time of hobbies , holidays and relaxation.Its wrong to assume that GPs will want to spend several days a week of their long awaited retirement to care for their GC, however lovely they are! GPs need to stick up for themselves and lay ground rules at the outset. They certainly shouldn’t be threatened with not seeing the GC if they’re don’t want a tiring commitment for the time they have left.

You are obviously passionate that women do all the childcare / a disproportionate amount of it / are coerced in to it.

There are plenty of families out there where this is not the case. Where adult children don’t take advantage of grandparents and where grandfathers and indeed fathers do 50% or more of childcare.

I’m 90% sure my own mum doesn’t know how to change a nappy (despite having two children and a grandchild) and I say this not to put her down but because she was not a default parent. Since I stopped breastfeeding, I haven’t put my child to bed unless his dad is out because I help get my child up and dressed in the morning so this is equity.

This theory (whilst I believe for some this is true) that women are hard done to or do disproportionate amounts of housework or childcare etc can only be changed by women and if women stop doing it and demand more. There is an expectation that men undertake childcare in every family I know.

I’ve had my fair share of dates and relationships etc in my life but wisely would only have a child with someone who would undertake a fair proportion of everything - a true partnership. Whilst habits of a lifetime are hard to change the longer they have been a habit …. women are the mistresses of their own destiny.

Yes people keep saying men do it equally too. The research shows that grandmothers mostly do the grunt work like cooking, looking after the children when sick, changing nappies, toilet training. If grandfathers help out with childcare they mostly tend to do picks up and playing.

Women are openly admitting on this thread how annoyed they are when their mothers or MILs do not want to help especially if they had help. It is like the woman has to pay it back while the men sit back and out their feet up having worked all their lives.

Regardless of your personal experience, the stats show it is overwhelmingly grandmothers who do the childcare. It is mostly grandmothers giving up work and reducing their hours mot grandfathers. Even when grandfathers take part, it is still mostly grandmothers doing food prep, cleaning, feeding, changing nappies, toilet training.