to think many grandmothers actually do not want to do childcare?

[onlytwo]

I go to a regular toddler group and there are many older women there with their grandchildren.

Been talking to them and many of them do not want to do childcare but have been pressured into by mostly their daughters but also their sons. Their children often think they are delighted to be looking after their grandchildren but often it is a huge struggle for these women (and it mostly women). They feel like they can't take a break because their children rely on them for childcare because of the cost of nurseries and general cost of living. They no longer have the same energy levels and also often have health issues.

Also grandfathers are usually not pressured into doing childcare and are rarely expected to give up their job when grandchildren come along. Their life mostly remains unchanged,

I feel the expectation of women to keep doing childcare is unfair and is coming from their own daughters. Some of the older women are frail and struggling to keep up with young children.

When talking to the mums, they say their mums love spending time with their grandchildren and looking after them. That is not what they have said to me.

Seriously, @onlytwo, you really do need to recognise the fact that many people of grandparent age are widowed, and stop making assumptions of specific posters/posts when you don't know their situation.

It's tactless and possibly hurtful.

I agree with you mini pie..
I think also , a lot of women finally have time for themselves once they have their children reared , & isn’t that nice too , when you come to that chapter in your life to have free time for you ..
Whilst it is nice to spend time with grandchildren obviously, & I would always help out , ( when I have grandkids ) but to commit to every day while their mom & dad working , I wouldn’t be up for ….

People keep going on about that this generation of grandparents got free childcare a lot but statistically grandparents do much more childcare now. I can't remember ever seeing grandparents at the school gate and even when my mum went back to work, I went to a childminder as did most kids I knew with working parents. I grew up in the 90s and my mum said she never saw grandparents at toddler groups or the school gates whereas there are heaps of them now.

I don't like this sense of entitlement and tit for tat that because they were looked after their grandparents that their own parents then must provide childcare. Yes it takes a village but this doesn't mean that grandparents must provide free childcare. They can still provide support and help in other ways. The village was never just about immediate family.

People are free to choose how they want to be grandparents and how they want their relationship with their grandchildren without being guilt tripped or dictated to by adult children with a sense of entitlement.

My sister and I were told in no uncertain terms by our Mum (possibly Dad) that she wouldn’t be ‘childminding’ our children. Fair enough, she brought up her own children.
She (they) did babysit of an evening when asked. Not that often to be fair.
And as the Grandchildren grew older, had them over night if needed.

A lot of women are retiring from their jobs early to look after grandchildren. They are not usually widowed.

I am not making assumptions. I am asking questions.

If you feel it is tactless or possibly hurtful, feel free to hide or leave the thread.

Gender differences between grandparents caring for grandchildren. Even when grandfathers do help there tends to be a divide:

Overall, grandmothers were more likely to report caring and helping activities (e.g., cooking, caring when sick, helping with homework, and collecting them from school) than grandfathers, even when they coresided.

https://www.demographic-research.org/volumes/vol43/53/43-53.pdf

Evidence consistently shows that women perform the majority of unpaid domestic work and are the main providers of informal care (Craig and Mullan 2011; Zigante 2018), with theories explaining such persistent gender inequality ranging from reflecting traditional gender roles to (lack of) independent economic resources (Evertsson 2014; Kühhirt 2012; Raley, Bianchi, and Wang 2012). A vast literature also shows that grandmothers provide more grandchild care than grandfathers (Fuller-Thomson and Minkler 2001; Glaser et al. 2013; Hank and Buber 2009; Horsfall and Dempsey 2015),

A mixed-method study in the United Kingdom (Wheelock and Jones 2002) that used a convenience sample of (mostly) working mothers found that it was grandmothers who were helping with picking up grandchildren from childcare/school and caring for them until parents returned from work, as well as with stepping in when emergencies arose (such as when grandchildren are sick).

What is going to happen when we're all expected to work later and later and the cost of living means that stashing money into huge occupational pensions isn't possible?

I am self employed (also have a PAYE job) and while the PAYE job I can retire from, I won't be retiring from my self employed job until I can no longer man a keyboard - the self employment will be financing my retirement. All of which means I wouldn't have loads of time available for Granny Child Care, even if I wanted to do it. It might be expensive for DC to pay for childcare, but I need to prioritise keeping a roof over MY head.

Well said. It is a deeper issue. It is true adult children feel hurt when their mothers do not want to take on childcare in a way they they do not if their fathers said no. There is so much more judgement and expectations of women.

I think grandmothers do feel guilty if they say no but then they are being guilted into childcare. So many grandmothers have mentioned the exhaustion of looking after young children.

Even with financial desperation the expectations are still directed at women not men. If it was more finances driving the expectation then every possibility should be considered but then the perceived nurturing aspect you mentioned comes in.

It is clear from the research that even when the grandfathers are helping, grandmothers are still mostly doing most of the grunt work so the people claiming grandparents do it together, that is mostly not true.

I can see as well why some people feel guilt tripped into providing childcare. There's been endless posts on this thread stating or insinuating that unless grandparents are not providing free childcare throughout the week they won't have a close or loving relationship with their grandchildren.

I just don't agree with this at all. My own grandmother lived 200 miles away and I only saw her about once a month and I still had a loving, close bond with her and great memories. Similarly I have lots of friends who live a good 2-3 hours from their parents and their children have fantastic bonds with their children.

@onlytwo
"A mixed-method study in the United Kingdom (Wheelock and Jones 2002) that used a convenience sample of (mostly) working mothers found that it was grandmothers who were helping with picking up grandchildren from childcare/school and caring for them until parents returned from work, as well as with stepping in when emergencies arose (such as when grandchildren are sick)".

In primary schools I have known there were relatively few families with GP living in the same area. I'm sure that there are parts of the country where this is not the case, but not in areas where we have lived.
Did the study just find that there were more GM than GF doing the pick-up where grandparents were doing it? A little ambiguous maybe but I don't disagree that GM are more likely to do it than GF, this is certainly true in our family. However my DH, the GF, is more likely to do the homework or play games with them whilst I provide the meal. I don't object to this at all as he is a terrible cook.

Im 64 still work but only part time, i look after my grandchildren 2x days a week and i LOVE it, id have them more if i could.
regarding holidays ect, they are entitled to breaks so if im going away i check with them first that either of them can get the same time off.

My father died when my first two children were small, he did seem to be very fond of them and I had high hopes that he might have been more a more hands-on GF than he was a DF. Sad.

It would be interesting to compare this to a similar analysis of parents of young children - how marked is the gender split between hands on caring with grandmothers / grandfathers, compared to that of mothers / fathers?

Aw bless you 'Downtrod' indeed :( that is one hard day!! I honestly don't know how you keep up...and I mean that. You are racing towards burnout, so take it easy. Try to give yourself a break and be honest and take some of that load off.

Yeah this. ^ @ImagineImagine I don't think it's fair at all to lay babysitting and childminding duties (for a young child) on your teenage child... Seems very unfair and unjust. It's your child, not theirs. And I am willing to bet that this older child you are hoping to get to look after the younger sibling is a girl.

You’re wrong on all counts! If you’d read my other replies, you’d know my eldest is a boy, and all I’d be asking him to do would be to see my youngest child on to school bus approx 25 mins after I leave for work. ( 3 mornings per week) I’d still ensure all had bags packed, clothes ironed and food. I was simply trying to think of how I could take some of this off my in-laws as they get older and as my youngest child’s school doesn’t provide wrap around care. I was a young carer when I was a very young, as my mum needed help with my younger siblings ( one who was very disabled) I did not grudge helping, as I was part of the family and she needed me. I would not impose this level of responsibility on my son, but I don’t think at almost 16 it’s not unreasonable for him to help out a little. Surely that’s what families do?

Probably true.

I love looking after my grandchildren but they illuminate my age. I only look after more than two at a time if Grandpa is also helping. The same with taking them on holidays.
Over night babysitting is easier with kids in their own beds.

We would always help in emergencies of course.
Any regular childcare time is best at their home - having the equipment and the children's toys and books available.
It is really special time.

Funny I have just been speaking btoba grandfather who said he had had enough of four year olds after a week and came home while his wife stayed with the the family another 3 weeks.
I guess it's all relative! 😄

I'm exactly one of those grandmothers.
Pure joy to have a granddaughter following daughter's IVF. We were so excited about the prospect of caring for her when our daughter had to return to work.

The joys are many but boy, did we underestimate how hard it is, especially at our ages. I spent my whole working life teaching at primary level and you need great creative-thinking skills for that. Well, mine have all but run out and sometimes I can barely remember my own name! You spend thousands of hours in freezing weather in playparks and watching TV Peppa Pig repeats.

Think very carefully before you commit. It's a lengthy process and the sacrifices you make can foster resentment as you're not doing the things you planned at this age. In addition to that I suffer endless guilt that we don't give anything like equal support to our son, DIL and two children who we love just as much in bucket-loads but are too worn out to see or look after on any regular basis.
Thanks for listening. I'd sum up by saying that all three grandchildren have benefitted from our care and attention and we know this has helped to give each stability, security and of course oodles of love!
Our three have never been in day-care. There are many great childcarers, please do your research as there are sadly many poor ones.

PP’s making me very grateful for my dear MIL, not that she’s used for childcare, but that she enthusiastically offers, and does the absolute most for all of her DGC because she wants to! My mother on the other hand looked after her SGC (poorly) out of obligation and it showed.

Some folks here recently seem like they don’t like kids much at all, fine of course, but why have your own in the first place? I guess it’s strange to me because we are a child oriented family and all prioritise our youngest members.

You are being exploited by your daughter. You will keel over with exhaustion if something doesn't change. I doubt she will really stop you seeing her kids as she relies on your too much. Give it a go and see what happens. At least you will get a rest if she stops you seeing them.

Completely agree.

Take a step back.
She has chosen to have children, time for her to sort herself out.
It is stories like this thaf stiffen the backs of others that simply choose to not be available.

Your primary duty is to your children, NOT your grandchildren.

What will happen to your children if you get sick?

Step away and let her use them as a bargining chip.
When it happened to my friend she told her son crack on.
She wouldn't entertain him and is very unavailable.
He and his entitled wife have massively missed out.
My friend did not want to be childcare for her grandchildren and if that means she wouldn't see much of them, then so be it.

Anyone who would try and use their children like that is awful and a shit parent.
Let her off and step back.
I bet your health will improve.

The stress of being constantly asked for advice which isn't then being taken, is really bad for your mental health.

Step away.

You just mention the women in your situation not the men. Women can have children but not want to do childcare for GC just like men who are not doing the majority of the caring when it comes to GC.

You might be a child oriented family but I very much doubt the men are contributing as much to the care as women.

Some of these grans are absolute saints and do absolutely everything for their grandchildren because their parents are so useless.

My personal favourite was the gran at the school gates who constantly made snide remarks about me being 20 when our kids started reception, turns out her daughter was only a handfuls of years older than me and had abandoned her child to be a drug addict 🤔 so much for the perfect family