to think many grandmothers actually do not want to do childcare?

[onlytwo]

I go to a regular toddler group and there are many older women there with their grandchildren.

Been talking to them and many of them do not want to do childcare but have been pressured into by mostly their daughters but also their sons. Their children often think they are delighted to be looking after their grandchildren but often it is a huge struggle for these women (and it mostly women). They feel like they can't take a break because their children rely on them for childcare because of the cost of nurseries and general cost of living. They no longer have the same energy levels and also often have health issues.

Also grandfathers are usually not pressured into doing childcare and are rarely expected to give up their job when grandchildren come along. Their life mostly remains unchanged,

I feel the expectation of women to keep doing childcare is unfair and is coming from their own daughters. Some of the older women are frail and struggling to keep up with young children.

When talking to the mums, they say their mums love spending time with their grandchildren and looking after them. That is not what they have said to me.

Great post.
For so many they see the grandparent relationship as transactional.

Neither of my grandparents ever looked after me and I had very close loving relationships with both my grandmothers.

I never had any support myself and my children never had grandparents that looked after them, ever.

I got on with it.
I care about my children but I really would have zero interest in any commitment, however would definitely try an be there in an emergency.

So doing this is causing the poor woman mental and physical health problems as well as exhaustion, social isolation and poor self care? And- she appears not to enjoy it.
What on earth could her daughter do in the NHS as a job that is so important it requires the woman do this to herself; yet pays so little she cannot afford proper home help and childcare.

Im she is ‘lovely’ but forgive me, she sound like a total doormat and her daughter an absolutely dreadful pisstaker.

I despair, I really do at some young mums doing this to their own mothers, running them into the ground.
Dreadful, dreadful people.

Yep. And when the pp gets sicker and older and needs support herself, I predict that her DD will be nowhere to be seen.

My heart actually breaks for nans in this situation. My ex-SIL did it to her mum who was lovely and it’s ongoing with my DSD who is running her poor mum ragged.
I feel nothing less than incandescent rage towards adults abusing a weak parent like this

I‘m a nan and help out loads as well as sleepovers days out etc
But on my terms and DD, DS x3 and even DSD ( who resents me and her dad deeply for not being at her beck call and calling out how much her mum is struggling) have received this message loud n clear from day 1

total madness

Everyone I know who has GPs who aren’t keen on childminding (or who do it on a limited/begrudging basis) tend not to spend great amounts of time with them otherwise, so they don’t have great relationships with their GCs.

From my own experience, both GPs would be capable of looking after the children and very much pushed for GCs/spoke at great length about how much they’d be involved before they arrived. However in reality the novelty wore off very quickly after the first one was born. That’s fine and they were never asked to do much anyway, but they also aren’t that interested on child friendly days out or spending time together with the children either- we invite them out frequently but it is rarely accepted. It doesn’t feel like they have much time
for me either! Each does a few hours childcare a week mostly so they can say they do it.

DM, in particular, expects to be the favourite and most cherished GM, but does little to build such a relationship. She will frequently comment on how tired I look or how DH and I should spend time together but wouldn’t take them for a few hours, knowing we have limited options outside of GPs for babysitting (and it is nearly impossible to find a paid babysitter locally). The DCs inevitably pick up on it too.

If you were my mother/MIL, I would happily never talk to you again the moment something so insane came out of your mouth. I'm grateful that my husband and I both have Asperger's/autism, which, to an extent, allows us to see our families objectively, without sentimentality clouding our judgement. If I would stop speaking to a friend for a certain behaviour, I would also stop talking to a family member for a certain behaviour.

Luckily, my husband can afford for me to stay at home with our children, so I anticipate being in the rare position of being able to refuse babysitting offers from a MIL whose care for her older grandchildren I have found questionable. We intentionally purchased a house over an hour away from family members over one that was under thirty minutes away to reduce the influence of "gentle parenting" style grandparents on my children.

So not only did she not offer any childcare, she married a man who tried to sexually assault you as a teenager and fell out with you because you didn't ask him to give you away at your wedding?

Honestly, she deserves a lonely old age.

I have been wondering about this myself, having been brought up solely by my mum with only occasional babysitting from my own granny, and living too distant from any of my daughters grandparents for them to have been involved. I think they were both relieved and not keen to get involved either. However, they had 5 and 3 children themselves so may have worried that if they do it for one, they need to do it for all.

But when it comes to my daughters, if they needed help I would be delighted. I very much doubt I will have grandchildren, as both of my daughters are lesbians and have expressly said they don't want children. 😕 If they change their mind I would be right by their side if welcomed.

Here's the thing. Women traditionally did all the caring roles, for free, often very much taken advantage of in fact. This would be of young people and of sick, disabled and old people, As women have become equal and emancipated, men have not taken on any material part of that role. This has left an expectation that the state must pick up that role, employing paid carers to do this.

However, it's unclear whether this is sustainable. We've seen huge migration into the UK, much of which is a workforce in health and social care. Weve needed to bring in a "cheaper" workforce from abroad. First we had Brexit, now Reform UK look to be gaining ground. I'm not sure there is an appetite for continued mass migration to fill this workforce. Nor is it clear that people coming here via the social care route are continuing to work in social care anyway.

The nursery employee staff thread yesterday reminded me that there's not necessarily an indigenous/ British born workforce either.

So who IS going to look after our children and old people? It seems we have a choice - pay more or do it ourselves. And for someone with two or more children, paying more is not viable on most people's wages.

I'm not sure how we square this circle but I, for one, would be happy to contribute. Obviously caring can be very hard, but its also rewarding. If we all share the burden, then perhaps we can do it.

This is really sad. When we were young my dad did the equivalent of work from home - he was a farmer - and my mum worked in an office. My dad did most of the childcare (with help obviously) when we were children. He was what we modernly call the default parent. He is older than mum. He retired sooner and despite having had a quadruple heart bypass. He was keen to do the childcare for my son. At one point he was looking after my son 3 days a week even though he found it tiring, they would nap together sometimes. They did all the baby groups together etc. they have the same first name so were called big x and little x at all the groups. Mum has also retired now but I would say my dad still does most of the childcare and practical things. If dad and I were in the same place and my son fell over he would want his grandad not me tbh. Dad has him less now. Most 2 days a week. He will call in and visit him if he doesn’t have care of my son that day. Their relationship is beautiful. There was no pressure from us for him to do the childcare. Whilst I was pregnant he was insistent he would do all the childcare. He had the heart bypass when I was on maternity leave and we told him we would use a nursery etc. he insisted. He is already sad about DS starting the school nursery 2 days a week in September.

I do wonder if what you are meaning is the general - it is tiring / we feel we should do x, y, z that everybody thinks from time to time. I’m sure even my dad (who is a saint) thinks that sometimes.

I do not think people should expect their children's grandparents to become full time child minders, unless they offer, ofcourse. I think they have done their time, and should look forward to a retirement when they can do what they like, when they like, without any restrictions. If you cannot afford to finish work, or go part time, or pay for nursery, child minders etc, you need to think , should l really have a child. I am not being harsh, it's just amazes me how people think their parents should look after their grandchildren.

I dont think you are unreasonable, I think you are right. I am a grandmother and because we now have to work longer to get our SP I am still working. After doing a full days work the to have to do he school run and cook tea for them and keep them entertained leaves me worn out.

I think in most cases the truth is that they do love spending time with their grandchildren. But children are hard work, and most women 45 plus have depleted energy and health issues, weight gain etc. It is just not as easy to move around. I guarantee you that most of these women would love to have the energy and the health they had in their younger years, specifically for their grandchildren.
Sorry, I know this doesn't answer your question. I'm sure more nans would like to say "No, I'm just not up to it, right now", and they should be able to, but they also feel responsible with the costs of childcare. It's a difficult position.
Personally, I find that younger people don't always have much empathy for older people as they don't understand what it's like to feel so tired a lot of the time, having never experienced it.

I think you have to be honest with your family if you don't want to do it. I used to take the children to school every day but my daughter could see that I found it a bit of a chore and now she takes them to breakfast club. I only take them if she has to go in particularly early.

I do babysit when asked and she usually comes home reasonably early. Also I sometimes stay overnight or have them for a couple of days if she is going away, but I do find this exhausting.
It is difficult, if your DC are used to having you take the children all the time they come to expect it I think.

My mother still cries about how hard she found raising three of us while my dad worked 100hr weeks as a trainee doctor. Not one of us would ask her to do more than visit ie enjoy her grandchildren rather than raise them.
I often wonder whether people who expect grandparents to do childcare, involve said grandparents in family planning. It feels unreasonable to make those choices as a couple but then expect parents to pull up the slack.

I think you are right, I am a grandmother and because of the rise in SP age I am still working. After doing a days work then the school run then feeding them and keeping them entertained I am worn out by the time I drop them off.

That's lovely to read.

My parents and my in laws live close by and both did a day every fortnight, so alternate weeks. DC went to nursery for 2 days and I worked 3 days a week until they went to school. They are twins though and toddler twins are not easy. Both grandmas and grandads helped as a result.

They also did lots of school pick ups, emergency childcare when DC ill, loads of overnights and extra babysitting if we went out on weekends. However we never took the mickey (I hope) and now they're older we try to help them as much as we can (they still do lots for us though!)

They did it for their other grandchildren as well and were happy to. No one took the mickey, as far as I can see.

DTs are teens now and still close to all 4 GPs, as are their cousins, and all the cousins are close - they've all spent loads of time together at the GPs on both sides.

We are very lucky but I think this is how it should be, this is the relationship and model I would aspire to as a grandparent. If I was fit and healthy enough I would be delighted to look after my grandchildren a couple of days a week.

There is a scheme that in some circumstances can help grandparents but it is complicated and not worth a lot. If both parents are working full time and not taking advantage of the national insurance contribution for stay at home parents then this can be transferred to the grandparent. This may mean a slightly higher pension in retirement for the grandparent if they haven’t already paid enough “stamp”

True. Your daughter is obviously a considerate and caring person who has had the good sense to find the right balance. That's how it should be.

Yes but perhaps that’s more to do with the kind of people they are rather just being older or a grandparent .

I adore my GC and love helping out with them. I did have a regular day per week at one time but circumstances changed. At that time I mostly saw small children being cared for by grans or senior ladies. Yes it’s hard work but to me, worth every minute. After all, they are at school in the blink of eye and once they are in their teens they tend to be much more independent. To me it’s been worth the hard work because I have a lovely relationship with my GC now.

I'm a grandmother and absolutely love taking care of my grandchildren. One grandchild close by, two others abroad. Obviously there is a difference in how often I have them here at home but I love it even if all 3 of them are here. Indeed our son and dil are used to having a backup for whatever situation, I agree now it would be difficult to take a step back. But when my grandson was just born I most certainly had the opportunity to say what I was prepared to do. It was never an issue really. (I'm 67)

A very hands on Gran here and I love it.

I am disabled and unable to work. I do the school run 4 afternoons a week during term time and look after my grandchildren 4 days a week in the school holidays.

Why would I want their parents to pay someone to look after the kids, when I love them and enjoy spending time with them?

DM, in particular, expects to be the favourite and most cherished GM, but does little to build such a relationship. She will frequently comment on how tired I look or how DH and I should spend time together but wouldn’t take them for a few hours, knowing we have limited options

This is how women judge other women. A man is rarely judged this way.

That is fine but there a lot of grandmothers who don't want to do that much care or are being pressured into it unlike grandfathers where there are rarely any expectations.

When I was 73 and my oldest GD 11, I took her to the UK for ten days so she could get to know that side of her heritage and family. We had a great time, but after ten days I was exhausted. Next year GD2 will be 11 and I will be 76. I promised to take her too, but I'm timing the visit for the early part of the school summer holidays so that DD and her children will be able to take on some of the activity. I'm afraid I will be 79 when GS gets to be 11, and he's likely to be out of luck unless I can persuade one of his parents to come along as well. I love my GC but certainly couldn't do full time childminding of them. They don't live anywhere near me so we do visits and that works out fine.