to think many grandmothers actually do not want to do childcare?

[onlytwo]

I go to a regular toddler group and there are many older women there with their grandchildren.

Been talking to them and many of them do not want to do childcare but have been pressured into by mostly their daughters but also their sons. Their children often think they are delighted to be looking after their grandchildren but often it is a huge struggle for these women (and it mostly women). They feel like they can't take a break because their children rely on them for childcare because of the cost of nurseries and general cost of living. They no longer have the same energy levels and also often have health issues.

Also grandfathers are usually not pressured into doing childcare and are rarely expected to give up their job when grandchildren come along. Their life mostly remains unchanged,

I feel the expectation of women to keep doing childcare is unfair and is coming from their own daughters. Some of the older women are frail and struggling to keep up with young children.

When talking to the mums, they say their mums love spending time with their grandchildren and looking after them. That is not what they have said to me.

I love the emotional blackmail seen on this thread: you won't have any relationship with your kids or have anyone visiting you, unless you give up your hopes and dreams of travel, hobbies, rest, and provide regular childcare. Also, parents must look after their kids because kids didn't ask to be born, but these kids dont have to look after their own kids for the same reason🙄.

I have never responded well to emotional blackmail.

@onlytwo . The father of my grandchildren, like their mother, works full time. They both use their annual leave to look after their children but there isn't enough annual leave between them to cover all the holidays and half terms. My DH does his share, and more, in looking after the grandchildren but he is 7 years older than me and has his own health problems.

He is my children's stepfather and came into their lives when they were adults, so even though he has a close and loving relationship with my own children it is not surprising that they choose to ask me rather than him.

The men in my family do at least their fair share of any childcare - I was responding to the original post, which was 'to think many grandmothers actually do not want to do childcare '. As a grandmother - I responded to say that I did not want to do childcare. I'm not sure where the man-bashing bit comes in?

I don’t have any grandchildren and to be honest I hope it stays that way. For many years I really wanted one, I thought how lovely it would be to care for them, but now absolutely No Way. My energy levels have dropped considerably and I have a couple of health issues. I actually feel a bit guilty because my own mum played a massive part in my son’s upbringing.

Oh please. Don't blame women for being unable or unwilling to control inept men.

@StevieNic

I wrote further detail in response to another similar question to yours which would answer this.

When we lived near my mum we didn’t use her as childcare, she has already raised her children and worked all of her adult life, she shouldn’t have to continue working because I decided to have children.

I think sometimes women are the problem. One family I know the women fall over themselves to make sure the men don’t do any solo childcare. The grandma will cancel her plans on inset days as the mum works in a school and it’s ’unfair’ for dad to have to take annual leave without the mum there. Of course he should insist and look after his kids but the women shouldn’t enable it.

Directed at women not the men.

So who is to blame for the pressure on women putting pressure on other women?

Women are having to state their position on childcare. Men do not need to because they are rarely expected to give up work or make commitments to regular childcare.

Who is to blame then?

Men are not involved so it is fine for women to pressurise other women? Men get to be left alone.

The other parent of the child who needs looking after. Who has decided it isn’t anything to do with them. Of course women do put this pressure on themselves and assume it’s a women only job. But men do this just as much.

The other parent is not pressurising the grandmothers to do the care. They opt out so it goes back to the women trying to find another women to do the childcare.

No it is. If you only want to give your grandchildren £5 on birthdays and Christmas, yes you reep what you sow. If that is your level of interaction with your grandchildren, then that's sad.

I didn't say there should be childcare, I have no grandparent support for childcare for my children. But I do expect some level of interaction, love and compassion just as our parents expect from us. I don't just bob them £5 in a card birthdays and Christmas and then expect support when I need it from them

My mum was clear she’d help in an emergency, have them for occasional weekend and a week in the summer holidays (often she’ll do 2 weeks because she actually enjoys having them - they’re 13 and 17 and still love going to granny’s). Dmil has had dd1 for a few days once age 2 and then a week with all 3 dc when little but never offered again - she found it a lot (totally understand as dd2&3 are twins and I don’t disagree they are a lot 😂).

regular childcare is really limiting at a point you’ve got freedom so I can see it being tricky and grandparents feel pressure.

@VenaziaJ
I think stories like this, where expectations are so unreasonable and selfish are what have put very firm boundaries in place for me and my circle in their 60's.

My pal told her 3 children newly married children to not expect anything from her other than total emergency back up in any family planning they were doing.

Like me she raised 3 under 5 and is not a baby person. She has been a devoted working mother while her husband often travelled.

She is adamant that she is not the least bit interested in grandchildren and even less in being involved with their care.

All 3 of her children have good jobs and homes, and live well. Their budgets and lifestyles will absolutely have to factor in childcare and be adjusted.

I think her honesty is wise. She and her husband have retirement plans that they are excited about and travelling features high situation is awful and exploitive of her.
Her daughters selfishness and expectations of her are disgusting.

I would much rather not have grandchildren than to feel so taken advantage of.
@VenaziaJ I strongly recommend you rethink this arrangement and consider your own health.
Your daughters guilting you for her choices is awful.

Time to step away and accept the fall out.
My SIL sacrificed her 60's after retirement to childminding after retiring from a long career.
Her husbands sudden dealth coinciding with her grand children no longer needing her care means she is 70 and alone.
She deeply regrets thinking she had time to travel with her husband and allowing herself to give a decade up to childcare.

From your OP:

Also grandfathers are usually not pressured into doing childcare and are rarely expected to give up their job when grandchildren come along. Their life mostly remains unchanged.

Yes absolutely, although I would lose the word “usually”.

I feel the expectation of women to keep doing childcare is unfair and is coming from their own daughters

This is the reason - even in this thread the younger woman is accountable for the pressure and not the child’s DF or DGFs.

We still live in a patriarchal society and in any hierarchy the rules are set up at the top and generally enforced by a subset of the tier below.

Women need to refuse to be the default carers in perpetuity but also need to stop policing other women. Men need to step up and share the responsibilties as well as the benefits of being parents.

As you say - when did anyone talk about “hands on” women, every time I see that phrase “hands on Dad” I know that radical feminism has a bloody long way to go.

Irrespective of the childcare, I'd say you are spot on with this. My GM died when I was 11. I still have warm and happy memories of her and of knowing how much I was loved. I want that for my GC. GF isn't around, so I'm the only GP he has.

This whole nuclear family set up we have in the west isn't healthy. Unless GP are / have been abusive in the past of course. That puts a totally different spin on things.

This is how I look at it (from a GM point of view). I've worked to bring up my own kids. I have no say in whether or how many children my DC might produce and I don't particularly want a 'close' relationship with any GC. I will love them and enjoy them at one remove, as I do with my nieces and nephews, I don't need them to adore me, I've got a dog to do that. And as for 'well, I hope you never need care in your old age', well, I find it a little unpleasant that it would be hinted that if I don't care for not only my own children but also the next generation down, I don't deserve looking after. What happens when the GC have children, would I also be expected to help with those in case I need looking after? And what about all those men? Do they not 'deserve' to be looked after in old age because they didn't change nappies when their DC or DGC were small? Is it only women who are expected to 'buy' any consideration in their old age?

Men are not manipulated and threatened with you will not get care because you did not do childcare.

It is almost like women to have to pay upfront by devoting lots of time to childcare, giving up their jobs or reducing their hours. It is mostly women doing this, not men.

That's basically my point. If women are expected to 'buy' care in their old age (all these posts about hoping that any woman who won't care for her DGC won't need any care in her old age), why does nobody expect the same from men? There's no posts about all these absent fathers or hands off grandfathers not getting any care in their old age, it all concentrates on the women!

It is not being addressed. Men will most likely get the care anyway without having to buy in advance with childcare duties.

Also so many woman on this thread have made excuses for the grandfathers not doing anything, They do not seem to exist for most women.

I personally am not forced to babysit. Of all the women I know, none feel forced to provide childcare. I haven't voted.

I guess it would be useful to know the demographic of the people who have agreed with the OP (how many are actually grandparents who have been asked to babysit). All the grandparents I know acknowledge that "childcare" is more tiring at 50, 60, 70, 80 than it was at 20, 30, 40.

I always think the attitude of ‘I have done my time raising kids’ is selfish and individualistic. I think by having kids you are opted in to communally caring for future generations in the same way they would ideally reciprocate for you as you age. I don’t think grandparents should be guilted into fulltime or even significant part time childcare, but everyone needs to contribute to the wider family and be a part of eachother’s lives.

I don't think there's any reason for your friend to feel hurt. It's a perfectly reasonable choice on her mother's part, though I'm aware different families have different expectations. Her mother hasn't chosen to have another child. I'm recently retired and don't yet have GCs but I just love the freedom I have after years of an all consuming job that drove me into the ground. Although I have many happy memories of my DCs' childhood I often found parenting challenging, have never been in my element with young children and feel like I've forgotten how to do it! The thought of going back to having a weekly demand on my time that I couldn't get out of would almost make me want to cry, however much I loved the GC. If I did it, it would be because my DD was desperate for some reason.

BTW my adult DCs have a warm and affectionate relationship with my parents, though my parents only ever once looked after one of the DCs on their own once for a few hours when we were completely stuck. They lived some distance away and my mum wouldn't have wanted the DCs to stay as she always found young children difficult (my childhood was consequently not brilliant which probably affected my parenting - I worked hard to overcome that and don't relish doing it again!). Yes it was difficult having no help from either set of GPs but my DPs have still always shown an interest and treated their GCs in a way that made them feel they mattered. People show love and affection in different ways. Your friend should try and understand her DM's perspective rather than focusing on feeling hurt. That feeling comes from assuming she has a right to still demand her DM's time as an adult and her DM is somehow remiss for not prioritizing her adult daughter's needs over her own.

Why do we still assume that women 'naturally' want to look after small children they have a blood relationship to?

Grandfathers mostly are not buying into this perspective.