to think many grandmothers actually do not want to do childcare?

[onlytwo]

I go to a regular toddler group and there are many older women there with their grandchildren.

Been talking to them and many of them do not want to do childcare but have been pressured into by mostly their daughters but also their sons. Their children often think they are delighted to be looking after their grandchildren but often it is a huge struggle for these women (and it mostly women). They feel like they can't take a break because their children rely on them for childcare because of the cost of nurseries and general cost of living. They no longer have the same energy levels and also often have health issues.

Also grandfathers are usually not pressured into doing childcare and are rarely expected to give up their job when grandchildren come along. Their life mostly remains unchanged,

I feel the expectation of women to keep doing childcare is unfair and is coming from their own daughters. Some of the older women are frail and struggling to keep up with young children.

When talking to the mums, they say their mums love spending time with their grandchildren and looking after them. That is not what they have said to me.

IMO a lot will depend on the age of a GP - as well as their inclination. Energy levels of say a 53 year old are usually rather different from those of a 69 year old.

I did (willingly) one day a week with Gdc1 (I was 67) but when no. 2 arrived less than 18 months later, I knew it’d be too much. We helped with childcare costs instead - I know we were fortunate to be able to do so.
For a week I did an emergency one off with Gdd1 - baby was in hospital - and although she was a very good little girl, I was still like a wet rag at the end of it, and promptly succumbed to shingles. I still put that down to lowered immunity through sheer knackeredness.

Sorry for your loss and that she didn't get to enjoy her retirement.

No, we're required to look after our own children. They didn't ask to be born. It's literally the legal bare minimum. I don't think grandparents should be expected to provide care, but equally I sure as fuck don't think anyone should expect elderly care which is far more onerous and certainly less joyful either. We don't have kids to create on home carers.

Although, again. No one is expecting that from sons. It's daughters and daughter in laws.

Then I hope for your sake your health holds and the retirement age doesn't keep rising so you are free to do so while you're young enough to be capable. Also that your children between them have a manageable number of DC at intervals that mean you don't have a houseful to manage nor yet are providing childcare for over a decade because of age gaps. And if for some reason you can't do it, your DC don't think its a sign you don't 'value time with your GC.'

I think some think oh I will help them out it will be nice to spend time with GC etc before the reality of it all.

My mum helps out 2 weeks in the summer for DS1 with school holidays but qe book him into half day sports camps as well. We are grateful she can help with that. I would never ask her to be regular childcare (my dad died a few years ago) as I don't think it's fair to limit her. DHs mum well she plays the doting grandmother to her friends reality is she didn't send them even a birthday card and she hasn't called or asked about them since Xmas.

Me too 🙏🏻 Wish I’d had my children younger now like my Mum - it definitely makes a difference.

Let’s be honest, some don’t value the time though who could do more. My oldest friend asked her Mum (who had ample money and time, was in great health, no other GCs) for help 1 day a week, she point blank refused and listed everything else that was a higher priority in her life (her garden, her running, etc). She hasn’t even bothered asking for her other 2.

This friend has found it incredibly painful watching friends with 2 sets of GPs happily cover the whole week for them and their siblings children as well. She thought they’d love a day together, and is hurt.

I live too far from my DGCs to childmind regularly but I very happily did so to cover when the nursery closed and school holidays up to lockdown. They’re older now and I wouldn’t be able to keep up with them anymore!
I absolutely cherish the time I spent with them, very special times.

My mother and father lived 14 miles away, probably visiting us a handful of times and flatly refused to ever look after mine yet had my sisters’ children on a very regular basis including overnight. My MIL never even babysat yet lived 100 yards away!

It gets more complicated when there's two or more sets of grandchildren. Everyone needs childcare so it's a balancing act not to offend either families.

Even just one full day is a lot to commit to and isn't something everyone will want to do. It doesn't mean not valuing time with GC, it just means not wanting to commit to childcare which is fair enough. It shouldn't be expected.

As it's already been said on this thread too, it's also only expected from the Grandmothers. Grandfathers are rarely asked and the expectation is rarely there which is unfair because they are never accused of not valuing time with GC.

My parents would love to have ours and they do take them out and to school when they visit from the States. My parents fly down to my sister to spend time with their grandchild and my aunt has flown my niece with her to take her to my parents. My parents definitely enjoy it.

DH’s parents do a lot for SIL and have for 14 years. They complain to DH about it and I take it as a reason not to ask them for help unless absolutely necessary, but DH still asks so it is between them. MIL has also watched BIL’s kids when they lived nearby but she never complained about them.

I can see why they’re annoyed yet don’t see a reason why they couldn’t have said something in that time considering nephew is 14 and niece is 10 and both are quite vocal.

My maternal grandparents did a lot of childcare for me and my sister when I was growing up yet my mother will ask how can I be tired as a mum of three with one that is special needs, and it is just DH and me, nearest family who could watch ours is 5 hours away minimum.

She had her parents and my dad’s family (which she refused to use except for an aunt who isn’t a blood relative of my father’s.) but my dad took us over himself and would drop us off for a bit on occasion. I grew up seeing both sides several times a week. They lived a five minute drive away from each other and we lived 20 min drive from them.

Unless the grandmother actually asks to take care of the grandchildren on a regular basis, I think it’s unfair of parents to ask. They did that chapter of their lives already and deserve to be “allowed” to go on to the next one. Also, they’re either dealing with age-related health problems, or will be soon and should enjoy the time before problems start.

The sentiment you are hearing from grandparents is not unusual at the church playgroup I help to run. IME those grandparents doing 1 day a week/ ad hoc 1 day a week childcare (1 day but different days each week to accommodate shift work) have very different views and enjoyment levels than those doing 3 or more days every week, week in, week out. It also varies with the age of the children they are minding.

Those doing a day a week talk of their enjoyment and are in general happy to do the day. I've found those who are doing 3 or more days and especially where those 3 days are long (8-5.30/6pm) don't seem to enjoy it as much. We've found at our playgroup that it is a bit of a safe space for grandparents to vent about the childcare arrangements. Many of them have not said they find it hard going to their families. Many started the arrangements when the children were under 1 but have found as the children have grown up it's becoming harder for them. Looking after a 9th month old is very different to a 2 or 3 year old. Normally when these arrangements began the 9 month old had a couple of naps a day, happy to go in the pushchair, weren't particularly mobile or just starting to toddle around and mainly crawled. Entertaining them was somewhat easier. Whereas most of the grandparents who are finding childcare hard are looking after toddlers between 18 months and 4. All of a sudden they are looking after a toddler that is very mobile, often climbing, resists the pushchair/ car seat, starting to tantrum, dropping naps and in some cases not napping at all or their parents are asking Grandparents not to let them nap in the day so bedtime is easier. Often doing those long days.

I know quite a few grandparents who breathed a sigh of relief when the 15 hours for 2 year olds came in and their children/ children in law brought up the DGC attending pre school/ nursery for those 15 hours. Just because it eased the pressure. Most of those grandparents are still doing the childcare but the child is attending preschool/ nursery in the morning or 2 days a week and they are then either doing after lunch or down to 1 full day a week of childcare.

This is a really interesting thread and I need to go back and read through all the pages. I truly sympathise with GP's who do a major load of childcare in their retirement age its not easy. They should feel free to say to their DD or DS they can't cope or simply what they can do i.e 1 day a week. I'm estranged from my mum( for serious reasons) and my MIL is in her late 60's. She comes over to spend time with DC but I can see she's at a stage where she's getting a load of aches and pains,always tired and couldn't manage DC for long periods. She sees DC once a month and I don't even put pressure on her when I think another visit in a month would be nice. When we do go over she spends all her time cooking. I do think she's wonderful I've just accepted that DC won't have heavy GP presence the way some do. There is an influencer on Instagram that leaves her baby with her mum for 4 nights a week so her and her DH can get some rest (baby is now 8 months) and this has been going on since he was a newborn. So effectively the couple only parent for 3 days a week I do think that's extreme in my opinion.

Both mother and daughter had children with sperm donors? Gotcha

We wouldn’t be able to cope without the support of my parents with our children, and they’re happy to help us and spend time with their grandchildren, but I know they would ideally like to be able to have to commit less of their time to this.

All of my friends also have their parents/in laws for support, and I know there are mixed views from them too regarding the frequency they are needed. All understand however that we are all totally stuck financially and know we would all really struggle without them and it would also impact upon their grandchildren.

I’m deeply concerned that my Husband and I won’t be able to offer the same support to our children and grandchildren (if we are blessed with them in the future), as our mortgage is due to end when we are in our 70’s and we will need to remain in full time employment. This will be the case for many others too in the UK too, it’s so shit.

Kindly, it’s their responsibility to look after their own children. I didn’t have my children with the expectation that they will need to care for me when I’m old.

Most of these grandparents I know had their in laws or own parents helping with babysitting or some form of childcare. Happy to take but not to give back.

I don’t expect any childcare or babysitting off any family members and don’t receive any.

My MIL never even babysat yet lived 100 yards away!

People rarely say this about a FIL. Women get judged for not doing doing childcare.

They will mostly ask the grandmother rarely the grandfather.

You appear to be obsessed with this grandmother/grandfather division. I can assure you that my dad would just as happily look after my daughter as my mum. In fact, my dad is retired and my mum still works part-time, so more often than not it's my dad who stays with my daughter during the day (she's a teen now but he also did this when she was little). My FIL would also stay with his grandkids.

So not enough they raised you, you still expect more. Entitled much!

Despite all the sexism and the expectations on women, several posters have still stated it is unfair that their mother had help from her mother but they are are not getting help from her.

It is like men do not exist.

I get what you’re saying, but this is in many cases a logical consequence of a higher proportion of fathers being entirely absent. My friend’s Dad lives abroad with his new wife. My Dad is dead, and so has been entirely absent since I was 4. I was basically raised by 2 women, my Mum and Nana, so view women as highly responsible and reliable with regards to their children/GC. They have been the ones who have stepped up for me. I have other friends who don’t get a look in now their Dads have remarried, even when they live locally. So it genuinely wouldn’t cross our minds to turn to them for help with GCs when they’ve experienced zero/very little help themselves.

I do see a difference with the GPs that are still together, who are happily married and both retired. They seem to work as a far more equitable team with regards to care of their GCs. Which is of course a positive for all involved.

OP is right though. The vast majority of pp's are only talking about women looking after their children and some are only judging women who don't want to look after GC.

Yes I am obsessed with inequality.

Lovely that your dad did so much but the stats show it is mostly women who are giving up work or reducing their hours to care for grandchildren not men.

My mum was 69 when my son was born and is now 71 and manages fine with my 2 year old but couldn't manage more than one day. I always check in with her, it's not an expectation she does childcare and if at any point if it was too much, we would accommodate otherwise. My mums health and happiness is more important to me than free childcare.

My own dad has a physical disability so isn't in a position to provide much in childcare but he's still fantastic with my son. And actually as a father, even in the 80s he was probably one of the few fathers that did night feedings and waking even though my mum stayed at home.

If my parents had said they didn't want to do childcare and just wanted the "fun" parts of being a grandparents, I wouldn't have had any issue with this. They sacrificed so much and brought us up. I do feel their retirement is "their time" and I want them to enjoy it as much as they can and certainly the amount of help they give me as no bearing on how I will support them when they need it.